Old Traps

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

56 minutes ago, Stockpot said:

 Don't suppose you've still got the postcard? What a little gem that would be.

Sadly, mate; My niece happened

I kept all my letters ~ including Years of invaluable information from my first mentor; A life long Gamekeeper / Poacher, according to circumstance. He was in his seventies, fifty years ago. Just try to conceptualise what that man had seen and done! And he told me it all!

Kept everything in an open topped box. Was living at my sisters place at one time. Live in babysitter. Came home one day. Little fukker had found my letters and ..... Kids / Paper? You know how That goes! She had a pen too!

And, you know what'll bug me, even on my death bed? The body count when he was put in charge of an as yet unkeepered estate. He said the first thing ~ back then ~ was to clear the ground.

They did this with forked sticks. Push a forked stick in the ground, every such and such a distance. And you'd have a bucket full of rabbits paunches'

  Only, these paunches were swilling around in a solution of strychnine. So, elbow length rubber gauntlets on and you'd go round, hanging a paunch on every stick.

In the morning, you'd go round again and collect everything. I distinctly remember he said over eighty dead things awaited him. Everything from stoats and jays and even a couple of black Labrador dogs. Absolutely fukking brutal. But, that was the way, in his time.

  What I wouldn't give to be able to read that numbered list again! Fukking incredible!

Neice is still alive. Pretty fukking incredible too, considering.

[Wolfdog91 6,242]

On 22/05/2021 at 10:33, Ken's Deputy said:

Wolfie; It's basically down to 'That's how we've always done it'.

Our earliest traps had flat springs, yeah? I hope you're familiar with what's meant by that, in this context. Otherwise you'll barely comprehend what I'm on about.

Anyway, a flat spring, obviously, needs some platform to spring from. And so the Stock Bar came into being. And the rest, as they say, is history. That's just how we made our traps.

There were, of course, exceptions. I once had a lovely, British made, example of a round jawed, double springed monster. It had swinging springs, like yours tend to.

Henry Lane (Like our answer to your Newhouse, if you like) produced some surprising designs. In particular, I'm thinking of their Jump Trap with an underspring.

But, yes; Generally speaking, a spring fixed to a stock bar ~ be it flat, bow, forged, pressed or wire ~ is just the British style.

Intresting figured it was something like that . Thank you for the explanation

[Wolfdog91 6,242]

Welllp figured y'all my enjoy one if my wall hangers. Pretty sure is a Victor sure grip

 

[Ratmanwan3 85]

I've got a victor muskrat trap at home but can't see how it works. It's obviously got a set of jaws that spring up when the foot plate is depressed but then has another bar that looks like it springs over the top?

How does that work wolfdog  ?

[Wolfdog91 6,242]

3 hours ago, Ratmanwan3 said:

I've got a victor muskrat trap at home but can't see how it works. It's obviously got a set of jaws that spring up when the foot plate is depressed but then has another bar that looks like it springs over the top?

How does that work wolfdog  ?

Basically the set jaws of the actual trap hold that jaw open while it's set with the use of a second dog. When the trap is set you take the second dog out the safety notch like this . The second dog being the long but of rod on the left side.

When the trap is fired the first set close letting the second dog come up and letting the second jaw fire.

Can't quite remember the purpose of the second jaw though think it was either to knock the muskrat out or act as a second grip to alleviate any possible wrong outs. Not sure is have to ask some of the boys on my site on the trap collecting section .

Another cool thing. This trap has tags from Wisconsin and the pan says it was manufactured in Mississippi so it went from my state up north then back home again

[Wolfdog91 6,242]

Well one more, dosent look it but this trap is pretty old , and my pride and joy of the collection. An original near mint condition US Government issue Victor 3N complete with the chain swivels dog knot stake and matching jaws trap is probably at least 50years old and I keep saying I'll take it out at cat a coyote in it but idk looks too good gaurding my trapping video collection . The 3N is one of the most iconic traps over here . This make has probably killed more coyotes than any other trap . From my understanding it was built to spec by victor for trappers after they asked a bunch of wolfers ( an honorific term we use over here for trappers who are at at the top of the game per say. Used to refer strictly to wolf trappers back in The day but now is used by coyote men) what they wanted in the "perfect coyote trap". most eveything from the stake and chain to the jaws where based on recommdations from these trappers. It's too the point many still use these traps and feel they are without compare. There's only two other traps I think that can over ride it's infamy but thats another story.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Wolfdog91

[Ratmanwan3 85]

Cheers wolfdog, don't think there is a second dog on mine, it may be incomplete.

I'll have another look.

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

15 hours ago, Wolfdog91 said:

Welllp figured y'all my enjoy one if my wall hangers. Pretty sure is a Victor sure grip

 

Wolfie, forgive me for floundering in with my vagueness. Only the last time I had anything to do with US traps at all was twenty years ago. I was a B&L man too. Never got into Victor or Newhouse.

But, you say Victor SureGrip? That rings a bell. Only, was there not a very similar trap marketed ~ no idea who. Never got into muskrat traps of any kind ~ called the Stop Loss?

It too, I believe had that bale arm that came over and did Something to the rat. Both names suggest the arm did something to prevent the rats doing what ever they did to get away.

Incidentally; That Long Spring, partially showing to the right? Isn't that one of those Russian Marten traps? Nail them to the end of a pole?

Beautiful effect, by the way; The Victor mounted on the old wood. Looks lovely!

[Wolfdog91 6,242]

20 hours ago, Ken's Deputy said:

 

Wolfie, forgive me for floundering in with my vagueness. Only the last time I had anything to do with US traps at all was twenty years ago. I was a B&L man too. Never got into Victor or Newhouse.

But, you say Victor SureGrip? That rings a bell. Only, was there not a very similar trap marketed ~ no idea who. Never got into muskrat traps of any kind ~ called the Stop Loss?

It too, I believe had that bale arm that came over and did Something to the rat. Both names suggest the arm did something to prevent the rats doing what ever they did to get away.

Incidentally; That Long Spring, partially showing to the right? Isn't that one of those Russian Marten traps? Nail them to the end of a pole?

Beautiful effect, by the way; The Victor mounted on the old wood. Looks lovely!

Why thank you ! I got it in a trade and figured it would be a nice wall hanger on a chunk of old fence post lol. 

But as far as the stop loss trap you talking about one of these ?

 

Their actually still manufactured and used here but idk if they any better than just using a trap that catch higher up on the leg.

As far as the long spring is just a sleepy creek #2dbls. It's one of the first trap I modified so I hung it up. That being said it is used by some int he manner your talking about 

[OldPhil 5,347]

On 12/04/2021 at 13:40, Ken's Deputy said:

I wouldn't bother too much about peoples opinions of others either. All a bit subjective, that sort of shit. I'm more interested in the preservation of factual things.

I'd far sooner we preserve knowledge of the vital details of, say, the " Fenn Mk I Vermin Trap ", rather than say, the 'fact' that I ~ personally ~ tend to offer my opinion that it looks like it was made out of coat hanger wire.

Imagine a future world in which all that anyone can say of an icon of British trap history is that; " I remember, some bloke on the internet used to say he reckoned, " It looked like it was made out of coat hanger wire."

'Yes, but, what did it actually Look Like???'

" Dunno, mate. All lost in time now. Load of coat hanger wire, I guess? "

 

And yet, I fear we're rapidly sliding that way. Just consider this thread and its satellites People'd sooner listen to facebook.

Great to read (and inwardly digest),..some credible imput, on the subject of Traps..

As an aside,..whatever happened to the Fenn Book project?

 In my opinion,..YOU were,.(and still are), the best man for that task...

The Fenn Trap came on the rural scene at a time when the Gin Trap was banned,..and as such it filled a much needed gap within the realms of Game Preservation and Pest Control. I really do think that the history and facts , should be recorded for posterity...

AS I say,...only one man can do this job justice...

 Maybe throw me a PM sometime soon..

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by OldPhil

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Sadly, mate, the 'Fenn Book' project died a double death (Or at least one is in a coma, as far as I know).

I'll tell you what? I'm just busy, right now. Sun's shining. I'm in good humour ~ after a week of practically full time heavy bloody sedation! Ans have just this minute decided that Yep! I'll crack on with That right now! Then you post .....

  Only a bit of donkey work to do though. Oiling some 2x2. It's really quite relaxing and will give me time to consider my response

  I won't using actual names, obviously. But, yeah; Since you've asked? I think this thread would be as good a place as any to rest the story So far as we know) of 'The Fenn Book'.

 

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Okay; The Fenn Book .....

I'm not gonna write a fukking 'book', here, about it. But, I'll tell as much as needs be, for posterity. After all, what I say may be capturing yet another little facet of Trap Collecting history that'll otherwise likely die with me.

.......... FFS! Yes, and twenty minutes later? I'm in the middle of writing a fukking book! You know me, Phil: Why say something, when you can just as easily spin it out into a full blown fukking camp fire side tale?

Okay. Start again. My Trap Collecting Mentor (F) was obsessed with what we'll call " Approved Traps ". Quite simply, the most knowledgeable bloke on the planet, where they were concerned. (He'd Been There!)

  He taught me everything he knew. Recognising that I could string two words together, he also asked if I'd write up all our shared knowledge.

Greatest honour of my life! Recognising I'd need more than just a list of precise measurements and details of entire production lines of " Approved Traps ", I set to with a vengeance.

For a few years or so I gathered all the information I could, from a phone, a post box and a computer. And, during this period I 'met' " L ". L was curious about this whole Trap Collecting thing. Having been a Gamekeeper.

L became My protege and I told Him pretty well as much as I could about the game. Sharing F and I's dream of " The Fenn Book ".

L was a good lad and went to any length possible, in support of gathering me stuff I couldn't get. I don't drive. He does. He actually went to the ~ by then closed down ~ Fenn Factory and took photos of it. Shit like that.

So on and so forth. My life got complicated. Till, one night I'll never forget for as long as I live; L emailed me to drop The Bombshell: F had met a guy, some Technical Drawing expert, or something? And commissioned Him to produce F's dream work.

I sat there. That message on my screen. And my fukking heart broke.

I've no idea what the book was called. I've never heard of it since. I couldn't give a fukk. As far as I know, it was just a few stapled pages of drawings of a few traps and some type face? Dunno. YOU ever come across it?

So; L said He'd do it. I was broken. I passed him the torch gladly. Handed over All my stuff. He went on to actually, physically go Meet the surviving Fenn family. He got shit, from the horses mouths, I could never have dreamed of!

L raced around the country. Getting to places. Getting information I never could. Hell! 'The Fenn Book'? L had amassed So Much mind bending shit, he was preparing to put out Two or Three volumes! He had the shit to create the Bible of Trap Collecting for all time!!!

 Then? His life got complicated

L doesn't talk about The Books any more. I may shoot him a line, maybe two or three times a year now? His replies have just become more and more succinct. He never mentions The Books. Doesn't even respond to shit about traps.

F's, quite possibly dead, by now? I'll be quite content with one more decade myself. Just see these few dogs out. L? He's a much younger man. But, I feel, he's had the life sucked out of him and now just wants to shelter. Regroup.

He holds the information. Whether he'll ever regain the Fire to do anything with it ....?

There's the story then. Told by one who Was There!

Now? I have these creatures to feed .....

 

 

[EDDIE B 3,120]

3 hours ago, Ken's Deputy said:

Okay; The Fenn Book .....

I'm not gonna write a fukking 'book', here, about it. But, I'll tell as much as needs be, for posterity. After all, what I say may be capturing yet another little facet of Trap Collecting history that'll otherwise likely die with me.

.......... FFS! Yes, and twenty minutes later? I'm in the middle of writing a fukking book! You know me, Phil: Why say something, when you can just as easily spin it out into a full blown fukking camp fire side tale?

Okay. Start again. My Trap Collecting Mentor (F) was obsessed with what we'll call " Approved Traps ". Quite simply, the most knowledgeable bloke on the planet, where they were concerned. (He'd Been There!)

  He taught me everything he knew. Recognising that I could string two words together, he also asked if I'd write up all our shared knowledge.

Greatest honour of my life! Recognising I'd need more than just a list of precise measurements and details of entire production lines of " Approved Traps ", I set to with a vengeance.

For a few years or so I gathered all the information I could, from a phone, a post box and a computer. And, during this period I 'met' " L ". L was curious about this whole Trap Collecting thing. Having been a Gamekeeper.

L became My protege and I told Him pretty well as much as I could about the game. Sharing F and I's dream of " The Fenn Book ".

L was a good lad and went to any length possible, in support of gathering me stuff I couldn't get. I don't drive. He does. He actually went to the ~ by then closed down ~ Fenn Factory and took photos of it. Shit like that.

So on and so forth. My life got complicated. Till, one night I'll never forget for as long as I live; L emailed me to drop The Bombshell: F had met a guy, some Technical Drawing expert, or something? And commissioned Him to produce F's dream work.

I sat there. That message on my screen. And my fukking heart broke.

I've no idea what the book was called. I've never heard of it since. I couldn't give a fukk. As far as I know, it was just a few stapled pages of drawings of a few traps and some type face? Dunno. YOU ever come across it?

So; L said He'd do it. I was broken. I passed him the torch gladly. Handed over All my stuff. He went on to actually, physically go Meet the surviving Fenn family. He got shit, from the horses mouths, I could never have dreamed of!

L raced around the country. Getting to places. Getting information I never could. Hell! 'The Fenn Book'? L had amassed So Much mind bending shit, he was preparing to put out Two or Three volumes! He had the shit to create the Bible of Trap Collecting for all time!!!

 Then? His life got complicated

L doesn't talk about The Books any more. I may shoot him a line, maybe two or three times a year now? His replies have just become more and more succinct. He never mentions The Books. Doesn't even respond to shit about traps.

F's, quite possibly dead, by now? I'll be quite content with one more decade myself. Just see these few dogs out. L? He's a much younger man. But, I feel, he's had the life sucked out of him and now just wants to shelter. Regroup.

He holds the information. Whether he'll ever regain the Fire to do anything with it ....?

There's the story then. Told by one who Was There!

Now? I have these creatures to feed .....

 

 

Such a pity, nothing came of it fella. Sounds like there was a lot of work put into gathering and gaining information for the book. 

[OldPhil 5,347]

 A sad tale old friend...but knowing human nature as I do, and having experienced similar shit myself, (on numerous fecking occasions),..I am not suprised... Facts are, when such a project goes tits up and you lose that feel good factor with regards to carrying on, it invariably dies a death,..some folk say, 'put on the back boiler' to wait until another time.

Unfortunately,..that time never comes...

Stay safe now, and many thanks for answering my question..

Kind regards, OldPhil.

[Ken's Deputy 4,456]

Eddie: I'm out of 'Likes', mate. But, yeah. All told? The Decades of F's experiences. My own years of learning it from him. Researching to further it all. Then, L taking up the torch.

I know L travelled endless miles. Managed to get to places F, or I, never could. He also had the 'Character' to make people pay attention and welcome him. He opened doors.

The guy became the final ~ and pretty well complete ~ repository of The Fenn Story. And so much besides.

Then? Shit happened

I never have, and never will, discussed another mans private business on line. Just believe me when I say; " L " isn't the young man I once knew.

He tells me he's doing alright. I imagine he is. But, that fire's gone. I don't even see a spark now.

Maybe he'll suddenly arise. A Phoenix from the ashes of all F, I and L himself have done?

I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe That ~ the above ~ could be considered 'The Fenn Book Story'?

Because that's the truth. Every word of it.