Merle over a merle

[Dinosaurs 2,008]

1 hour ago, mush said:

They do it all time with show dogs,meant to get better colour merles . 

There must be a lot of wastage!! Atb

[Neal 1,784]

14 hours ago, mush said:

They do it all time with show dogs,meant to get better colour merles . 

I would have thought it would have caused the opposite i.e. more white on pups. I always thought you were supposed to add black genes to strengthen the merle colouring...if that's what you're after. I'm not saying your wrong Mush, just that I'm surprised that they do that. Some people eh.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

It can cause issues for future gens. I have a bitch who has Merle both sides. She’s ok, a little tapped in the head but not deaf or blind. But I’ve bred two litters out of her to two totally different dogs with no Merle abs both litters have har deaf pups. Mind you my folks have ‘deaf Eric’ (sounds like a 70s rock band) who is trained on hand signals and takes lead from the rest of the pack anyway. 

[lurchers 2,596]

17 hours ago, mush said:

They do it all time with show dogs,meant to get better colour merles . 

What a load of crap,it will cause more problems with deaf and blindness not stronger the Merle colour.

[pesky1972 4,926]

On 25/03/2021 at 08:14, Daniel cain said:

See loads of merles about by us..french bulldogs,British bulldogs,teckels,bullies,lad I know just payed 18k for a merle chow chow...don't look real...like some cnuts given it a blow over with a can of spray

£18k! Fcukin nuts! Buy a bitch and get a few litters out of her.., hope she throws a few merles, and that’s your pension sorted Until the price of dogs is somehow capped, the farmers and the thieving will only get worse. What’s the answer?

[Daniel cain 42,801]

I've no interest in breeding dogs for a living..  I've turned down plenty off my brother's...I work for what little I gotsooner or later the bubble will pop I should imagine.

[Chid 6,374]

8 hours ago, SheepChaser said:

It can cause issues for future gens. I have a bitch who has Merle both sides. She’s ok, a little tapped in the head but not deaf or blind. But I’ve bred two litters out of her to two totally different dogs with no Merle abs both litters have har deaf pups. Mind you my folks have ‘deaf Eric’ (sounds like a 70s rock band) who is trained on hand signals and takes lead from the rest of the pack anyway. 

Merle doesn't cause issues in future generations , if it did Hancock would of been out of business long ago .. the Merle gene (for want of a better term) is either present or it's not , if you've had deaf pups out of 2 different litters I'd say it's a hereditary problem but it will have nothing to do with the Merle 

[Aussie Whip 3,822]

If I was going to breed dogs I'd be breeding for health as my first priority. Breeding for looks and colour as in show dogs is the worst but breeding for working ability could be bad if the dogs inherit other underlying problems.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

1 hour ago, Chid said:

Merle doesn't cause issues in future generations , if it did Hancock would of been out of business long ago .. the Merle gene (for want of a better term) is either present or it's not , if you've had deaf pups out of 2 different litters I'd say it's a hereditary problem but it will have nothing to do with the Merle 

I meant as in if you breed two merles together abs get away with it, you seem to get more problems if you breed from that apparently sound Merle x Merle animal. If that makes any sense 

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Just to add I’m talking about a collie 

[OldPhil 5,347]

 We bred a fair few Collies when I was a young man,...my Father broke many dogs...(back in the day, spaniels and Herders were broke, the word trained,.. was not in their vocabulary)...Anyway, we had several speckled and merle coloured dogs. Even then, we twigged on that Merle to merle was not a good bet. 

We frequently got deaf and white pups. Obviously these poor critters were not spoken of, and went straight in the bucket.

I learned a lot about the Merle factor, and passed on this hard won knowledge, to certain lurcher aficionados

Anyway, that is all 'water under the bridge'

If you breed Merle to Merle, you MAY get a higher percentage of specked pups in the litter, but it is highly likely that some of these extra Merles, will have 'problems', whereas, If you put a whole color Brown, Blue or Black to your Merle, you will usually get a similar amount of Merles, but they will nearly always be ok, no probs.

Shepherding and Lurcher enthusiasts with a penchant for work, work ,work, do not give a flying feck about colors,..they have only one criteria on their agenda,..'Will it do the job' ?....Nothing else matters...

I'll conclude now,.for I've said far too much for a veteran hunting man...

However, my advice would be,...please listen to them as knows, if only for the whelp's sake,.and do not put a Merle to a Merle.  It is not necessary.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by OldPhil

[Black neck 15,161]

12 minutes ago, OldPhil said:

 We bred a fair few Collies when I was a young man,...my Father broke many dogs...(back in the day, spaniels and Herders were broke, the word trained,.. was not in their vocabulary)...Anyway, we had several speckled and merle coloured dogs. Even then, we twigged on that Merle to merle was not a good bet. 

We frequently got deaf and white pups. Obviously these poor critters were not spoken of, and went straight in the bucket.

I learned a lot about the Merle factor, and passed on this hard won knowledge, to certain lurcher aficionados

Anyway, that is all 'water under the bridge'

If you breed Merle to Merle, you MAY get a higher percentage of specked pups in the litter, but it is highly likely that some of these extra Merles, will have 'problems', whereas, If you put a whole color Brown, Blue or Black to your Merle, you will usually get a similar amount of Merles, but they will nearly always be ok, no probs.

Shepherding and Lurcher enthusiasts with a penchant for work, work ,work, do not give a flying feck about colors,..they have only one criteria on their agenda,..'Will it do the job' ?....Nothing else matters...

I'll conclude now,.for I've said far too much for a veteran hunting man...

However, my advice would be,...please listen to them as knows, if only for the whelp's sake,.and do not put a Merle to a Merle.  It is not necessary.

 

 

Drops the mic

[JAE B 513]

On 24/03/2021 at 07:37, Trev70 said:

All ways thought this should never happen but I have been told by some they have done it with no problem so when a lad offered me a pup out of his Merle bitch after his Merle dog had lined it by mistake, both being handy rabbit dogs I took him up on his kind offer. Six pup were born the lad was keeping two for himself he was gifting me one and the other three had working homes to go to but when their eyes opened three had no eyeballs one was blind and the vet said the other two could go blind at anytime . Just putting this on in case anyone is thinking about doing this , have a good summer all. 

 

 

That’s a shame that mate sad to hear that trev.would of been handy wee dogs aswell

[Trev70 5,185]

2 hours ago, OldPhil said:

 We bred a fair few Collies when I was a young man,...my Father broke many dogs...(back in the day, spaniels and Herders were broke, the word trained,.. was not in their vocabulary)...Anyway, we had several speckled and merle coloured dogs. Even then, we twigged on that Merle to merle was not a good bet. 

We frequently got deaf and white pups. Obviously these poor critters were not spoken of, and went straight in the bucket.

I learned a lot about the Merle factor, and passed on this hard won knowledge, to certain lurcher aficionados

Anyway, that is all 'water under the bridge'

If you breed Merle to Merle, you MAY get a higher percentage of specked pups in the litter, but it is highly likely that some of these extra Merles, will have 'problems', whereas, If you put a whole color Brown, Blue or Black to your Merle, you will usually get a similar amount of Merles, but they will nearly always be ok, no probs.

Shepherding and Lurcher enthusiasts with a penchant for work, work ,work, do not give a flying feck about colors,..they have only one criteria on their agenda,..'Will it do the job' ?....Nothing else matters...

I'll conclude now,.for I've said far too much for a veteran hunting man...

However, my advice would be,...please listen to them as knows, if only for the whelp's sake,.and do not put a Merle to a Merle.  It is not necessary.

 

 

The all point of the post Phil but I can see why by some comments on here why when mistakes are made instead of trying to help other they keep things like this to them self's. Atb.