The witches

[sandymere 8,260]

5 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

It's weird how some metrics/demographics are totally ringfenced whereas others are just accepted.

Less than 15% of the US male population are over 6ft tall and yet well over 50% of Fortune500 CEOs are over 6ft tall. We hear f**k all about that 'obvious' social injustice clearly caused by systemic prejudice and yet the gender pay gap is rammed down our throats at every opportunity! And worse still scrutinising the evidence for that pay gap is forbidden.

There are many forms of discrimination including Hight discrimination, it's well documented, but that doesn't negate the battle against racism.

The height preference may well be inherited as very young children show heightism.

[sandymere 8,260]

5 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

uh ohhhh......scare word used..........you win...game set and match.

Sorry chap , i don't understand what your saying "scare word" ??? what does that mean?

[Born Hunter 17,622]

Just now, sandymere said:

There are many forms of discrimination including Hight discrimination, it's well documented, but that doesn't negate the battle against racism.

The height preference may well be inherited as very young children show heightism.

Oh yeah absolutely, I'm just pointing out that there are certain demographics that society has just decided are more worthy than others.

[sandymere 8,260]

8 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

But you're fighting a perceived inequality with prejudice. I just can't get my head around how that's justified? Looking for barriers to entry which impact only certain demographics is treating inequality, I'm on board with that. But introducing quotas etc is literally introducing prejudice to get the result that you think is right. It assumes that there isn't a natural mechanism for the inequity, it assumes that there is a inequality.

There's a huge inequity for gender and other demographics measures in infantry units, is that natural or is that inequality that needs quotas to fix?

No your fighting prejudice with equality, if a local demographic has 50% of the population from a particular group then you need to answer that and level the playing field of application, that doesn't mean that you don't stop other groups applying and getting posts but that you ensure that the people that are employed represent the people from whence they are recruited.  Once the balance is gained then there is no need for interventions, if the interventions aren't instigated the inequality continues forever. 

[Born Hunter 17,622]

6 minutes ago, sandymere said:

No your fighting prejudice with equality, if a local demographic has 50% of the population from a particular group then you need to answer that and level the playing field of application, that doesn't mean that you don't stop other groups applying and getting posts but that you ensure that the people that are employed represent the people from whence they are recruited.  Once the balance is gained then there is no need for interventions, if the interventions aren't instigated the inequality continues forever. 

Quotas are an equitable fix not an equality fix. By definition of the words. Seeing an inequity and assuming it is an inequality is a fallacy. Therefore introducing quotas is prejudice to counter the effects of an assumed prejudice, rather than directly attacking the prejudice. This is usually done because fixing inequalities is much harder than fixing inequities. For starters it requires finding the inequality. I might even be able to get on board with it if the inequality was proven but it's usually taboo!

I have a real problem with this, as you might be able to tell. 

Look, if you are against quotas and such like then I think we probably agree. But I'm pretty sure that's exactly where this started? You supporting quotas that represent a demographic proportionately?

[Born Hunter 17,622]

The best example I can think of is gender in combat units. There was an inequality in the form of outright bans on women serving on the 'front line' but that's history now. Of course there could still be systemic barriers like cultural prejudice or conditioning but do we seriously expect even in a perfectly egalitarian society that women would be proportionally represented in a bayonet charge?

Because we apply that same logic to everything else that involves women or any other demographic we are told has been oppressed.

I'm not saying inequality doesn't exist, just that too often we are not fixing inequality and we are not even allowed to talk about it.

[MH1 1,800]

35 minutes ago, sandymere said:

There are many forms of discrimination including Hight discrimination, it's well documented, but that doesn't negate the battle against racism.

The height preference may well be inherited as very young children show heightism.

Heightism?

[WILF 44,196]

11 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

The best example I can think of is gender in combat units. There was an inequality in the form of outright bans on women serving on the 'front line' but that's history now. Of course there could still be systemic barriers like cultural prejudice or conditioning but do we seriously expect even in a perfectly egalitarian society that women would be proportionally represented in a bayonet charge?

Because we apply that same logic to everything else that involves women or any other demographic we are told has been oppressed.

I'm not saying inequality doesn't exist, just that too often we are not fixing inequality and we are not even allowed to talk about it.

You have hit the nail on the head with combat units, there is also the obvious.......genetic inheritance.

Women don’t serve in frontline field combat units in numbers because, well, they are just not as physically capable as men !

Sorry if that’s a bit simplistic but it’s true......genetics matter but I won’t embroil you in that whole part of the debate mate because I know you are not really into that sort of thing.

Anyway, I’m sure there are thousands of black doctors and nurses and Sandy will be packing his job in forthwith so that a black person can even up the numbers a bit

It’s Orwellian double speak at its finest imho 

Edited October 29, 2020 by WILF

[Born Hunter 17,622]

8 minutes ago, WILF said:

You have hit the nail on the head with combat units, there is also the obvious.......genetic inheritance.

Women don’t serve in frontline field combat units because, well, they are just not as physically capable as men !

Sorry if that’s a bit simplistic but it’s true......genetics matter but I won’t embroil you in that whole part of the debate mate because I know you are not really into that sort of thing.

Anyway, I’m sure there are thousands of black doctors and nurses and Sandy will be packing his job in forthwith so that a black person can even up the numbers a bit

It’s Orwellian double speak at its finest imho 

I have a habit of getting myself involved in these debates, even though I'm not really bothered, because I see something really trivial or tangential but it bothers me. LOL

Then I usually get lumped in with 'the enemy' and it all goes to shit but fairplay to Sandy he's a grownup.

I just haven't the energy to get into the race thing. I'm not really one way or the other. But I absolutely believe that different demographics are going to perform differently, not better or worse, just differently. It's not always prejudice. The women being 'weaker' thing is so in your face it just has to be accepted, yet in every other conversation on equality differences are always caused by prejudice. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Born Hunter

[WILF 44,196]

2 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I have a habit of getting myself involved in these debates, even though I'm not really bothered, because I see something really trivial or tangential but it bothers me. LOL

Then I usually get lumped in with 'the enemy' and it all goes to shit but fairplay to Sandy he's a grownup.

I just haven't the energy to get into the race thing. I'm not really one way or the other. But I absolutely believe that different demographics are going to perform differently, not better or worse, just differently. It's not always prejudice. The women being 'weaker' thing is so in your face it just has to be accepted, yet in every other conversation on equality differences are always caused by prejudice. 

People are different, you know yourself, you don’t need a study, or a paper, or a measurement......it’s right there in front of your eyes.

Being different isn’t a bad thing but let’s not lie about it either.

“Positive” discrimination is just discrimination with a flowery word in front of it.........discrimination is either wrong or it isn’t, they can’t have it both ways.

[Rickshaw swami 3,894]

I was discriminated against by US government for being white.19 year old kid with a baby on the way gets a contractors job with federal government.When I entered equal employment opportunity office there was pamphlets all over the wall.These magazines were for every ethnicity to get a federal job except white.I politely asked for info for a white man.She laughed and said You have had your time.I became self employed a few years later I have overcome racism.Nobody will stop me from providing for my family.You can put those quotas where the sun don't shine.

[sandymere 8,260]

13 minutes ago, baker boy said:

If we hadnt dragged them coons kicking and screaming from africa they'd still be rubbing cowshit into the walls of their huts

They dragged us kicking and screaming out of our mud huts lol, who invented writing, who domesticated animal like sheep and goats, who produced the 1st cereals etc etc the whole basis of our civilisation is given to us out of Africa and Asia.

[sandymere 8,260]

10 minutes ago, WILF said:

People are different, you know yourself, you don’t need a study, or a paper, or a measurement......it’s right there in front of your eyes.

Being different isn’t a bad thing but let’s not lie about it either.

“Positive” discrimination is just discrimination with a flowery word in front of it.........discrimination is either wrong or it isn’t, they can’t have it both ways.

But positive discrimination when used in balance against negative discrimination gives equality. Equality is the end game for me.

[WILF 44,196]

1 minute ago, sandymere said:

They dragged us kicking and screaming out of our mud huts lol, who invented writing, who domesticated animal like sheep and goats, who produced the 1st cereals etc etc the whole basis of our civilisation is given to us out of Africa and Asia.

Wow  

I genuinely never knew that Africans invented and built ships, sailed across the oceans and showed us how to build towns, cities, cathedrals, nation states, showed us how to cultivate land and domesticate animals.......they have missed that whole part out of every bit of history ever, if that’s not institutional racism then I don’t know what is ! 
 

[sandymere 8,260]

37 minutes ago, MH1 said:

Heightism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_discrimination