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Way back when the vote was announced I got slagged off on a fishing forum by people saying that the UK could not stand up to the EU because of its collective might. I argued that the EU was not a sing

I looked out the window after bojo's announcement and I couldn't believe my eyes,  the sky hadn't fallen in or anything lol

I'm a brexiteer, and I think Boris is our only chance of a clean break or an advantageous deal, but I also know about real politik and horse trading, so I won't celebrate until it's completely done !

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3 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Not long now can’t wait to sit back and watch another effort by Germany to govern Europe, fall to bits, must be really upsetting for a few though ??

Don't bet on it !

They are agreeing to a series of "mini deals" instead of one all encompassing deal, so it will drag on.

Cheers.

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I’d never bet on politics mate,or trust any of them I just love watching institutions unravel and even if we end up with some little ties for a while it’s the damage it’s doing to the unity of the eu block that I enjoy watching most, ?

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1 hour ago, Greyman said:

I’d never bet on politics mate,or trust any of them I just love watching institutions unravel and even if we end up with some little ties for a while it’s the damage it’s doing to the unity of the eu block that I enjoy watching most, ?

I'm a brexiteer, and I think Boris is our only chance of a clean break or an advantageous deal, but I also know about real politik and horse trading, so I won't celebrate until it's completely done !

I've a sneaky feeling that Boris will say we have an agreement on fisheries,  we will have "full control", but he will let the EU have "quotas", but the quotas will turn out to be exactly the same as they are now, thus appeasing the French !

So, I'll expect the worst, but hope for the best. It's a sad fact that politicians are a duplicitous bunch !

Cheers.

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Way back when the vote was announced I got slagged off on a fishing forum by people saying that the UK could not stand up to the EU because of its collective might. I argued that the EU was not a single entity but a collection of 27 members each of whom wanted different things and that at the end of the day it would come to fishing versus industry and the EU fishermen would ultimately be sold out to accommodate a trade deal to benefit industry. I also predicted that the EU would fight dirty and the only way to get a deal from them was to walk away without a deal.

Other than the spinless Theresa May's almost total capitulation the negotiations have gone almost exactly as I predicted. The devil is in the detail. At the moment the UK hasn't got the fishing capacity to fully exploit its waters. So it makes sense to allow some EU boats to fish but on the UK's terms. It is important to wrestle the management from the EU and make the EU fishermen obligated to UK approval. That emasculates Brussels.  Then, year on year the EU quota can be cut and the UK boats increase their catches. Macron knows that he cannot enforce the current situation and he is merely throwing a tantrum to get the EU to compensate his fishermen and appear to be standing up for them. If he could ban UK sourced fish on sale in France as he has threatened to do, he would put out of work tens of thousands of French farmers and lorry drivers as the refrigerated HGVs that bring French farm produce to the UK return full of UK sea food. If he bans UK fish then the transport cost of  French fruit and vegetables would double and they wouldn't be able to undercut countries like Morocco and Israel. And, to be pedantic; he cannot act unilaterally. It has to be an EU decision and that won't happen.

Also, France makes a lot of cars and their car workers jobs are far more important than a few fishermen. So Macron is merely posturing for a better deal for France and to boost his very low popularity rating. Merkel is facing a lot of pressure in Germany because of their COVID bailout costs. She cannot fight on both fronts so she will ensure that EU - UK trade remains tariff free. Same in Holland. They pay more per head to the EU than anywhere else. The port of Rotterdam depends on shipping goods to and from the UK. Their fishermen are small beer. They will sacrifice their fishing rights to maintain their trading levels.

Walking away will result in the UK getting what it deserves and Barnier will be seen for what he is; an inflexible bully who could not negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

 

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3 hours ago, Nicepix said:

Way back when the vote was announced I got slagged off on a fishing forum by people saying that the UK could not stand up to the EU because of its collective might. I argued that the EU was not a single entity but a collection of 27 members each of whom wanted different things and that at the end of the day it would come to fishing versus industry and the EU fishermen would ultimately be sold out to accommodate a trade deal to benefit industry. I also predicted that the EU would fight dirty and the only way to get a deal from them was to walk away without a deal.

Other than the spinless Theresa May's almost total capitulation the negotiations have gone almost exactly as I predicted. The devil is in the detail. At the moment the UK hasn't got the fishing capacity to fully exploit its waters. So it makes sense to allow some EU boats to fish but on the UK's terms. It is important to wrestle the management from the EU and make the EU fishermen obligated to UK approval. That emasculates Brussels.  Then, year on year the EU quota can be cut and the UK boats increase their catches. Macron knows that he cannot enforce the current situation and he is merely throwing a tantrum to get the EU to compensate his fishermen and appear to be standing up for them. If he could ban UK sourced fish on sale in France as he has threatened to do, he would put out of work tens of thousands of French farmers and lorry drivers as the refrigerated HGVs that bring French farm produce to the UK return full of UK sea food. If he bans UK fish then the transport cost of  French fruit and vegetables would double and they wouldn't be able to undercut countries like Morocco and Israel. And, to be pedantic; he cannot act unilaterally. It has to be an EU decision and that won't happen.

Also, France makes a lot of cars and their car workers jobs are far more important than a few fishermen. So Macron is merely posturing for a better deal for France and to boost his very low popularity rating. Merkel is facing a lot of pressure in Germany because of their COVID bailout costs. She cannot fight on both fronts so she will ensure that EU - UK trade remains tariff free. Same in Holland. They pay more per head to the EU than anywhere else. The port of Rotterdam depends on shipping goods to and from the UK. Their fishermen are small beer. They will sacrifice their fishing rights to maintain their trading levels.

Walking away will result in the UK getting what it deserves and Barnier will be seen for what he is; an inflexible bully who could not negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

 

And if we do leave no deal, im getting pished to celebrate another victory for freedom. 

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Don't worry. There is no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face. Another couple of days and Macron will drop his demands when von Lederhosen agrees to compensate the fishermen. That is what his tantrums are all about.

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On 13/10/2020 at 17:37, Nicepix said:

Way back when the vote was announced I got slagged off on a fishing forum by people saying that the UK could not stand up to the EU because of its collective might. I argued that the EU was not a single entity but a collection of 27 members each of whom wanted different things and that at the end of the day it would come to fishing versus industry and the EU fishermen would ultimately be sold out to accommodate a trade deal to benefit industry. I also predicted that the EU would fight dirty and the only way to get a deal from them was to walk away without a deal.

Other than the spinless Theresa May's almost total capitulation the negotiations have gone almost exactly as I predicted. The devil is in the detail. At the moment the UK hasn't got the fishing capacity to fully exploit its waters. So it makes sense to allow some EU boats to fish but on the UK's terms. It is important to wrestle the management from the EU and make the EU fishermen obligated to UK approval. That emasculates Brussels.  Then, year on year the EU quota can be cut and the UK boats increase their catches. Macron knows that he cannot enforce the current situation and he is merely throwing a tantrum to get the EU to compensate his fishermen and appear to be standing up for them. If he could ban UK sourced fish on sale in France as he has threatened to do, he would put out of work tens of thousands of French farmers and lorry drivers as the refrigerated HGVs that bring French farm produce to the UK return full of UK sea food. If he bans UK fish then the transport cost of  French fruit and vegetables would double and they wouldn't be able to undercut countries like Morocco and Israel. And, to be pedantic; he cannot act unilaterally. It has to be an EU decision and that won't happen.

Also, France makes a lot of cars and their car workers jobs are far more important than a few fishermen. So Macron is merely posturing for a better deal for France and to boost his very low popularity rating. Merkel is facing a lot of pressure in Germany because of their COVID bailout costs. She cannot fight on both fronts so she will ensure that EU - UK trade remains tariff free. Same in Holland. They pay more per head to the EU than anywhere else. The port of Rotterdam depends on shipping goods to and from the UK. Their fishermen are small beer. They will sacrifice their fishing rights to maintain their trading levels.

Walking away will result in the UK getting what it deserves and Barnier will be seen for what he is; an inflexible bully who could not negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

 

Yes I agree...but.... 

Our most profitable fishing industry...shellfish...has the EU as it only customer. Plus we can't staff our white fish boats now, we are relying on staff from Thailand and the far east. So while we should have control and hopefully develop a sustainable industry I don't think we have fishermen that we would even be betraying by allowing EU boats access. You have also to remember that British fishermen sold their quota to EU boats... 

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The story of British fishermen selling their quotas isn't as simple as people make out:

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/

The back story is is far more complex. But in reality there is nothing that anyone can do if a skipper or company want so sell their licence or quota, to stop a foreign investor buying in. Just the same with the gas, water and electricity companies. The sale goes to the highest bidder.

If the shellfish market is dependent on overseas markets then that only strengthens the hand of the British Government. Lorries have to transport goods both ways or it becomes inefficient and costly. The UK needs French and Spanish food and they need UK shellfish so any threatened action against UK products will harm their trade as much as ours.

 

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Whatever happens, they are going to have to throw the fallout from a completely unpredictable pandemic into the mix.

Financially the UK is the family who have just been going mad with the credit cards for years from what I can see of it, the debt is literally gargantuan.

I dont know what that requires to deal with but I can only see it meaning having to pack in even more souls and make more demands than ever before because let’s face it, nobody there wants to get smaller or poorer.

I still think Brexit was the right thing to do but I fear that what has been missed all along is that it can’t just be business as usual, it requires fundamental change to the financial and social fabric of Britain and I’m not sure many people thought that bit through.......they like the sound of it, but are they willing to take the pain?
 

At the minute Britain is purely and simply a people farm, it’s  a machine that requires relentless feeding......this pandemic has shown that many people don’t know how to function without that.

There is some amount of damage to undo 

 

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As I expected, today's "deadline" will pass without any decisions.

The EU , as usual, have just ignored the UK's threats to break off talks, and Boris is made to look a fool, or worse, a liar.

Talks will resume after the EU Summit and will drag on until January, and I wouldn't be supprised if an extension is agreed, blaming Covid for the lack of progress.

Boris should give the EU a firm date for a free trade agreement, and resort to WTO rules if theirs no agreement, but he won't.

Cheers.

Edited by chartpolski
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38 minutes ago, chartpolski said:

As I expected, today's "deadline" will pass without any decisions.

The EU , as usual, have just ignored the UK's threats to break off talks, and Boris is made to look a fool, or worse, a liar.

Talks will resume after the EU Summit and will drag on until January, and I wouldn't be supprised if an extension is agreed, blaming Covid for the lack of progress.

Boris should give the EU a firm date for a free trade agreement, and resort to WTO rules if theirs no agreement, but he won't.

Cheers.

I don’t think he can in all honesty mate, fact is, there’s f**k all money left now so it’s put away your guns with the EU and accept the reality of events or throw yourself on the mercy of the money lenders.......
I am probably wrong but it’s how I see it.

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