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Tikka magazine problem


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2 minutes ago, shovel leaner said:

Like I said , so many different opinions.

There loads of examples of rifles with loads of free bore still shooting tight groups.

It's not opinion but fact. 

I don't have my reloading notes anymore but there was all sorts of experiments some of which had varying c.o.a.l and it often had little effect on accuracy.

Just seat the bullet to where your rifle magazine dictates and develop from there with powder and primers. 

It is a common back peddle for first time reloaders to overlook the magazine limitations. That's why true bench rest rifles don't have magazines! Bench rest competitions....now there is a striving after the wind! Trying to get a series of shots down the same hole to make a calibre group! Then what? So they do it once or twice, then what? ??‍♂️

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3 minutes ago, Sausagedog said:

There loads of examples of rifles with loads of free bore still shooting tight groups.

It's not opinion but fact. 

I don't have my reloading notes anymore but there was all sorts of experiments some of which had varying c.o.a.l and it often had little effect on accuracy.

Just seat the bullet to where your rifle magazine dictates and develop from there with powder and primers. 

It is a common back peddle for first time reloaders to overlook the magazine limitations. That's why true bench rest rifles don't have magazines! Bench rest competitions....now there is a striving after the wind! Trying to get a series of shots down the same hole to make a calibre group! Then what? So they do it once or twice, then what? ??‍♂️

To be honest I’ve been getting acceptable results with the C.O.A.L . 
    Thanks for the help , I’m taking it all in . I will collect as much information as I can and then filter it with my special information filter . And find a middle ground where I’m happy.?

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1 minute ago, shovel leaner said:

To be honest I’ve been getting acceptable results with the C.O.A.L . 
    Thanks for the help , I’m taking it all in . I will collect as much information as I can and then filter it with my special information filter . And find a middle ground where I’m happy.?

Honest mate. .015" is tiny, 1/4 of a mm!

I've seen lads get it slightly long/ wrong and end up with a ruined night or stalking weekend because they rammed a bullet in the throat and had no cleaning rod to dislodge it with!

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On any factory Tikka .204 you cannot pull the bullet out far enough to be anywhere near the lands, yet they are incredibly accurate.

Mike Norris of Brock and Norris told me that the bigger the gap the bullet had to jump the more accurate at long range it was.

The bullet in your picture doesn't look right to me, it looks like it is seated too far out. 

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6 hours ago, ianm said:

On any factory Tikka .204 you cannot pull the bullet out far enough to be anywhere near the lands, yet they are incredibly accurate.

Mike Norris of Brock and Norris told me that the bigger the gap the bullet had to jump the more accurate at long range it was.

The bullet in your picture doesn't look right to me, it looks like it is seated too far out. 

That bullet is an empty bullet for me to use as a gauge. It’s seated just off the lands . It doesn’t look right to me either . 
       This all started when I was talking to a mate who reloads and he asked me how far back from the lands did I seat my bullets . I didn’t know and said I just go by the C.O.A.L in my book . There is a school of thought that the optimum accuracy is obtained when the bullet is seated 10-20 thou back . This is also stated on lots of YouTube vids on bullet seating . 
         I’ve got a feeling that it’s probably the case with target shooting applications, but probably not for varmint rounds . 

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13 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

First off. A bullet touching the lands is not dangerous, just not practical, especially if the bullet gets stuck and remains in the throat during unloading the rifle. Actually a deep seated bullet increases pressure by limiting case volume and then hitting the lands.

Second. The most accuracy is NOT found at the distance from the lands the EXPERT said at all. There are hundreds of factors that determines the best accuracy. Don't worry about it.

Your magazine is a generic unit that covers all the short action cartridges.

It possibly may have an insert piece that may be altered to allow a longer c.o.a.l.

 

I have experimentally verified this...... by accident. 8P

SL, listen to this man. :good:

I never f****d about with seating depth after I was advised to try the standard "touching lands or just off". It worked and I got bored. lol. Before that advice though :icon_eek:

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I think I’ve been around the houses with this . I talked to a mate who reloads and he was going on about how important it was to know where your lands were and how critical it was to be a certain distance from the lands . I know Steve Bowers (rifle maker) and had a chat to him and he said come over to the workshop and I will do some measurements and you will have some bullets to use as a guide . The bullets stick out a mile and don’t work in the magazine. 
           I am happy with the bullets I’ve been producing with the C.O.A.L to be honest, so I’m just going to stick to that . I am not a competitive shooter, my mate has I think just tried to look clever and confuse me . I do now have a better understanding of seating depth and I’ve learnt a new word OGIVES, something I didn’t know before , so not a complete waste of time . The next time someone wants to talk about lands , ogives, seating depth , I will be able to ....... tell them to shut the f@ck up , stop confusing me !!! My brains about to explode!!!

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14 minutes ago, shovel leaner said:

I think I’ve been around the houses with this . I talked to a mate who reloads and he was going on about how important it was to know where your lands were and how critical it was to be a certain distance from the lands . I know Steve Bowers (rifle maker) and had a chat to him and he said come over to the workshop and I will do some measurements and you will have some bullets to use as a guide . The bullets stick out a mile and don’t work in the magazine. 
           I am happy with the bullets I’ve been producing with the C.O.A.L to be honest, so I’m just going to stick to that . I am not a competitive shooter, my mate has I think just tried to look clever and confuse me . I do now have a better understanding of seating depth and I’ve learnt a new word OGIVES, something I didn’t know before , so not a complete waste of time . The next time someone wants to talk about lands , ogives, seating depth , I will be able to ....... tell them to shut the f@ck up , stop confusing me !!! My brains about to explode!!!

Ogives a damn anyway ??

?

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6.5x55 is a classic example of how a lot of free bore or bullet jump is NOT an issue. The Swede has a long throat in deferance of the original bullet, a long 160g bullet. So when it comes to loading 90g varmint bullets they are relatively miles away from the lands.

My Swede with such bullets would stack them @100 if I behaved. Without my data I can't check the length but I bet the jump was 4mm plus!

The only time I ever stuck bullets right out was with my 222's and 243's.

With 100g bullets in the 243 I was after as much powder space for the creamy h4350 as I could get and pretty much the same reason for 222, so I could cram as much bl-c2 in there.

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