The Social Dilemma

[Born Hunter 17,622]

Just now, Greyman said:

Even your innocent nectar card is collecting data on you

I'm seriously concerned about what can be achieved with AI given just how much behavioural data we are producing these days, completely unaware. Its a new technology that has only really just started to proliferate through industry. We're still learning about it. What it'll be doing in 50 years is frightening!

[WILF 44,182]

25 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

It's not just social media though mate, its internet activity. Any data they can get they are to build up behavioural information of their users and they use AI to spot trends that we never could, enabling them to understand our psychology and therefore subtly manipulate behaviour. Obviously the more active you are on any digital device the more you are feeding this problem and it's the various SM apps that are the real data gold mines, as you say.

Technology is designed to be addictive and now they have the tools to gather unimaginable amounts of data of how we behave, process that data and sell what they learn to whoever might want to use it.

This concept is new and already massive. It has huge consequences for freedom.

If nothing else we are sleep walking into a society where we are raising kids who can't be socially successful without indulging in this addiction.

We aren't designed for this shit.

All true mate.

As you say, we are all guilty but it’s a sad fact that “the net” and it’s various platforms are a reality......over here Facebook is massive, loads of business gets done via FB.

Its just something you have to be a part of to reach any kind of an audience.

I suppose the trick is, exploit it as much as you can and let it exploit you as little as you can.

However as I probably don’t need to tell you “behaviour science” has been part of government thinking since Lloyd George and probably before that.

Anyone who sells anything for a living uses their own little bit of “behaviour science” when dealing with clients.

The government have been employing physiologists to write tax Demand letters for years, they write different letters to different people in different areas to elicit the desired response !

They even have companies who specialise in different types to get things like big planning applications through committee, firms like Curtin & Co.

Its a mind f**k when you start finding out about this stuff  

Edited September 26, 2020 by WILF

[Born Hunter 17,622]

7 minutes ago, WILF said:

All true mate.

As you say, we are all guilty but it’s a sad fact that “the net” and it’s various platforms are a reality......over here Facebook is massive, loads of business gets done via FB.

Its just something you have to be a part of to reach any kind of an audience.

I suppose the trick is, exploit it as much as you can and let it exploit you as little as you can.

However as I probably don’t need to tell you “behaviour science” has been part of government thinking since Lloyd George and probably before that.

Anyone who sells anything for a living uses their own little bit of “behaviour science” when dealing with clients.

The government have been employing physiologists to write tax Demand letters for years, they write different letters to different people in different areas to elicit the desired response !

They even have companies who specialise in different types to get things like big planning applications through committee, firms like Curtin & Co.

Its a mind f**k when you start finding out about this stuff  

I get that mate, manipulation is nothing new. But that view on this is sort of dangerous imo. This isn’t like an incremental advancement in tech like when someone figure out to rifle a muskets barrel, this feels more like when someone figured out how to weaponise splitting atoms!

We’re not supposed to be living like this, ie we are not mentally equipped. And on a similar note to your FB in business anecdote, it’s becoming increasingly impossible to avoid if you want to be anything other than a total outcast.

Its just another example of backward ‘progress’.

[WILF 44,182]

13 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

I get that mate, manipulation is nothing new. But that view on this is sort of dangerous imo. This isn’t like an incremental advancement in tech like when someone figure out to rifle a muskets barrel, this feels more like when someone figured out how to weaponise splitting atoms!

We’re not supposed to be living like this, ie we are not mentally equipped. And on a similar note to your FB in business anecdote, it’s becoming increasingly impossible to avoid if you want to be anything other than a total outcast.

Its just another example of backward ‘progress’.

I totally agree with you, I don’t think the mind is equipped to deal with all this information never mind the amount of negative information.....it’s very, very unhealthy mate.

[NEWKID 26,094]

3 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

I feel like most of you have missed the point. Lol

You've got an internet connection, you are affected.

Never in history have ‘they’ had this sort of power.

I ain't missed the point mate...I just dont let it bother me... 

[NEWKID 26,094]

Our kids will.grow up in this age and everything will.be the norm, it will.evolve further no doubt abs our grandkids will have a different norm...

As we have from our parents and grandparents... 

But as one of our esteemed site members would say, we are only plebs..lol... what do you do, turn off the internet, or use everything available...or what you consider safe... I mean there is still a full life and opportunity outside of the cyber world...

[Born Hunter 17,622]

36 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

I ain't missed the point mate...I just dont let it bother me... 

Well now im curious to know what you think the point was because you seemed to think that the problem is confined to the likes of FB and Twitter etc. It's being applied to anything that you use a screen to operate. And will evolve beyond that.

I mean, if you're not bothered about this monster that is absolutely affecting all of us in the 1st world and is in its infancy then by all means scroll on.

I sense you have a somewhat hopeless view, accepting the problem but believing there's no solution. Well there will be, but it first requires public awareness and discussion, like any movement.

[Born Hunter 17,622]

43 minutes ago, NEWKID said:

Our kids will.grow up in this age and everything will.be the norm, it will.evolve further no doubt abs our grandkids will have a different norm...

As we have from our parents and grandparents... 

But as one of our esteemed site members would say, we are only plebs..lol... what do you do, turn off the internet, or use everything available...or what you consider safe... I mean there is still a full life and opportunity outside of the cyber world...

I don't know how to put this, 'they' have found a way to hack into our minds that is like heroine and we've let it proliferate through society to the point it's necessary to succeed socially. Kids are growing up with this as normal because adults have little awareness of its power and it's power is limited only by the AI it uses and the data it is fed.

This is a new drug but because it's not a pill society has totally overlooked it's potency. Meanwhile the dealers are using it to gather intelligence on their users so they can make money telling whoever will pay them how to manipulate you. And they're doing this using game changing technology.

I feel we have entered a new age, not just changing times.

[Born Hunter 17,622]

To try to explain why I think this is significant. In the past people trying to manipulate you were relative equals, they were just people, clever people but still just people, limited in the same ways that the people they were targeting were. Both sides had the same weaponry.

Big data and AI have changed all that in a scary way. These things are out evolving us. It's no longer a fairish fight. We are evolving over millennia, they are evolving over days....

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Someone smart once said, "the greatest trick they ever played was to convince you that you are powerless to make change".

Someone else smart once said "It just IS bro, you just got to get on with shit".

I think I kind of agree with both, but as I've got older I've come to realise that to be angry all of the time and continually rage against the machine, is fairly tiring and gets in the way of life. All you can really do is day to day do your part to try to make the world a little bit better and less f****d up in your immediate life surroundings. Look after yourself and those you love, and if you have a bit of left over energy, try to be nice to other folk, being nice doesn't cost much. Educate your children to understand the world we live in and appreciate the important things. Thats pretty much all you can do, because I dont think we are going to win this fight!

We live in scary world. Things are changing fast, like BH has said it isn't an equal fight any more, we are essentially fuked. Im sure it will be tough for our kids. However, good food, drink, beautiful countryside, half decent dogs and enough game and good folk will probably still be about that it wont all be bad for them.

[MH1 1,800]

Good luck to AI tracking me buying a meal deal in work and bits and pieces off amazon and wasting time on here

[NEWKID 26,094]

34 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

Well now im curious to know what you think the point was because you seemed to think that the problem is confined to the likes of FB and Twitter etc. It's being applied to anything that you use a screen to operate. And will evolve beyond that.

I mean, if you're not bothered about this monster that is absolutely affecting all of us in the 1st world and is in its infancy then by all means scroll on.

I sense you have a somewhat hopeless view, accepting the problem but believing there's no solution. Well there will be, but it first requires public awareness and discussion, like any movement.

Perhaps my views are too simplistic mate.

People use people every day in every way and always have, I hate this new age, because you are used/manipulated from afar, at least you can tell a window salesman to f**k off! Lol

But I'm still a firm believer in making your own choices, I choose my exposure on the internet, personally I've never brought anything from.any advert "aimed" at me (I buy very little on line), FB/Twitter etc ain't for me (again my choice)... my bigger fear (possibly wrongly)... is people cant make there own choices without checking FB for guidance, cant hold a conversation away from inane internet chat etc... 

I do understand the fears, to be manipulated and controlled even on line is a very scary thought, people are changing and allowing this, at some point you have to make your choice.

Edited September 26, 2020 by NEWKID

[NEWKID 26,094]

7 minutes ago, MH1 said:

Good luck to AI tracking me buying a meal deal in work and bits and pieces off amazon and wasting time on here

Same here mate..... they'd soon bore of me..lol

[Francie 6,362]

Your right to be frightened about a.i born, they don't call it the Inter Netfor nothing. 

Transhumanists wants to merge man with machine, as as your well aware of an are working on it as we speak

I think that everything folk are saying on the Net will someday be used against them, nothing is really deleted, its all up there in the cloud. 

[NEWKID 26,094]

10 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Someone smart once said, "the greatest trick they ever played was to convince you that you are powerless to make change".

Someone else smart once said "It just IS bro, you just got to get on with shit".

I think I kind of agree with both, but as I've got older I've come to realise that to be angry all of the time and continually rage against the machine, is fairly tiring and gets in the way of life. All you can really do is day to day do your part to try to make the world a little bit better and less f****d up in your immediate life surroundings. Look after yourself and those you love, and if you have a bit of left over energy, try to be nice to other folk, being nice doesn't cost much. Educate your children to understand the world we live in and appreciate the important things. Thats pretty much all you can do, because I dont think we are going to win this fight!

We live in scary world. Things are changing fast, like BH has said it isn't an equal fight any more, we are essentially fuked. Im sure it will be tough for our kids. However, good food, drink, beautiful countryside, half decent dogs and enough game and good folk will probably still be about that it wont all be bad for them.

Amen to that..

Life can still be simple if you want it to be