How kelpies doing?

[shaaark 10,112]

1 minute ago, Neal said:

Actually, his ears are up more than usual in that photo as he's one of those kelpies with slightly floppy ears...his nickname is Gumby because his ears go flip-flop when he walks.

Noggin looks even more German Shepherd like (I'm not putting up another photo straight away though; I need a lie down after that) as his tail is longer than usual as well.

[Neal 1,784]

Sod it! I decided to be brave and do it again straight away. Noggin's on the left and Ned's on the right. This was taken on Dartmoor a couple of weeks ago. We went up Cawsand Beacon for the view but this was all we could see so we went back down to the ford where I scattered Rusty and Scout's ashes. Actually, Scout's are in a hole in the bury next to the ford as she spent so much of her time trying to get in there I thought she's like to spend all eternity in it.

[Neal 1,784]

31 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

 Sorry if you’ve already covered it, but we’re all your kelpies bred by same folk? Are they in U.K.? An do they graft em? Like I said  sorry if you’ve already mentioned it but I’m proper intrigued by these dogs now

My first kelpie was Rusty who was bred by a shepherd in Wiltshire. Then I had two bitches Amber and Scout who were from a Welsh farmer who'd relocated to the Forest of Dean from Amroth. There was a four year gap between each of them but then I waited seven years before getting Noggin in 2014. He was bred by Tracy Huxtable who has a website: Devonairs Kelpies. When Noggin had his accident in 2016 I didn't want to be without a workable dog so went back to Tracy for a replacement. Unfortunately the pup I booked (Bailey x Maid who are both on her website) died at about a week old so I booked one from a future litter she was intending to make which was a repeat mating which had worked really well previously (Rock x Diamond.) She actually kept a bitch back herself as they were so good but gave it away to a farmer she knew who lost his dog suddenly at lambing time. However, while waiting for the mating to take place she told me about Ned's litter which was sired by a dog from the first mating of Rock x Diamond to another Devonairs bitch both owned by the same Welsh farmers (you can see Gem and Joey on Trefaldwyn kelpies website).

I bet you're wishing you hadn't asked now. I can talk kelpie pedigrees until the sheep come home.

Edited to add that Tracy also had a bitch pup from Ned's litter as she'd retired one of her Australian imports called Lucy (who's also Noggin's grand-dam) and the Ned litter had two lines to Lucy. I figured that if a farmer who breeds kelpies is getting a replacement from a particular place then that was a good enough endorsement for me.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Neal

[colliejohn 840]

2 hours ago, Neal said:

My first kelpie was Rusty who was bred by a shepherd in Wiltshire. Then I had two bitches Amber and Scout who were from a Welsh farmer who'd relocated to the Forest of Dean from Amroth. There was a four year gap between each of them but then I waited seven years before getting Noggin in 2014. He was bred by Tracy Huxtable who has a website: Devonairs Kelpies. When Noggin had his accident in 2016 I didn't want to be without a workable dog so went back to Tracy for a replacement. Unfortunately the pup I booked (Bailey x Maid who are both on her website) died at about a week old so I booked one from a future litter she was intending to make which was a repeat mating which had worked really well previously (Rock x Diamond.) She actually kept a bitch back herself as they were so good but gave it away to a farmer she knew who lost his dog suddenly at lambing time. However, while waiting for the mating to take place she told me about Ned's litter which was sired by a dog from the first mating of Rock x Diamond to another Devonairs bitch both owned by the same Welsh farmers (you can see Gem and Joey on Trefaldwyn kelpies website).

I bet you're wishing you hadn't asked now. I can talk kelpie pedigrees until the sheep come home.

Edited to add that Tracy also had a bitch pup from Ned's litter as she'd retired one of her Australian imports called Lucy (who's also Noggin's grand-dam) and the Ned litter had two lines to Lucy. I figured that if a farmer who breeds kelpies is getting a replacement from a particular place then that was a good enough endorsement for me.

Neal I applaud you for your passion and enthusiasm with regards your Kelpies FairPlay to you pal. Regards Collie John.

[Neal 1,784]

13 hours ago, colliejohn said:

Neal I applaud you for your passion and enthusiasm with regards your Kelpies FairPlay to you pal. Regards Collie John.

As I've said several times in the past Collie John; although I have kelpies and prefer them to collies that is purely a personal opinion and I'm a big fan of all pastoral type dogs. I know a lot of kelpie fans who are anti collie but I think they've just been unfortunate in knowing the wrong kind of collies. I suppose it's similar to why some don't like collie lurchers i.e. they've met the wrong type. In the U.K. I still think that a collie is probably the best for allround farm work...it's simply that I get on better with the kelpie temperament. Even though I'm a big fan of them I still regularly find myself saying, "I know you're a wise, independent-thinking kelpie (and you're probably doing it right) but, just for once, can't you do as you're told first time?"

Incidentally, I'm really just a bloke who's had a few dogs over the last thirty years (Ned's only my tenth) but currently has kelpies. I've always been a bit of a quietly spoken-nerdy-boffin type and I tend to remember lots of weird facts which I find interesting (which is why I'd like to think I made a good teacher). What I'm trying to say is that I'm certainly no expert and there are a lot of people out there with far more working knowledge of kelpies than me. I'd like to think it's just that I'm fairly good at putting my thoughts, theories and conclusions down. Group hug!

[Aussie Whip 3,822]

18 hours ago, Neal said:

That's the weight you want on a working kelpie,they don't lack pace or stamina.I clocked a red dog at 45km's so the blokes that have them crossed with greys or whippets won't be disappointed for the rabbit job.

[Aussie Whip 3,822]

They vary in size here,an old bloke near me who has show merino sheep in small paddocks has a top worker not much bigger than my Parson russell,where I used to live in mountain cattle country the kelpies were as big as GSD's but rangier,they never used Aust cattle dogs up there,the kelpies they worked were far better.

[Neal 1,784]

5 hours ago, Aussie Whip said:

That's the weight you want on a working kelpie,they don't lack pace or stamina.I clocked a red dog at 45km's so the blokes that have them crossed with greys or whippets won't be disappointed for the rabbit job.

Thanks Aussie Whip. I must admit that, before I got Rusty, the only kelpie I'd seen was Avenpart Dusty (who plays the part of Dusty in the film and who I later found out is actually one of Rusty's ancestors). I was amazed at how slim he looked. I always thought it looked like someone had done a cut 'n' shut job with a prick eared collie on the front end and a whippet at the back. Then, when I got Rusty his build was the same. I got lots of criticism from people telling me to feed my poor undernourished dog! But that was just his natural physique. All of mine have been similar and although I can feed them up to get them bulkier they catch more when they are slimmer...maybe they just want something to eat.

Edited to add that after posting this I had a feeling I was misremembering so I checked and he's not in Rusty's pedigree, he's in Amber and Scout's. D'oh!

 

4 hours ago, Aussie Whip said:

They vary in size here,an old bloke near me who has show merino sheep in small paddocks has a top worker not much bigger than my Parson russell,where I used to live in mountain cattle country the kelpies were as big as GSD's but rangier,they never used Aust cattle dogs up there,the kelpies they worked were far better.

The farm where I bought Rusty (who was about 19") had three similar kelpies as well as a few others which I mistakenly thought were huntaways, in my early ignorance, as they were probably about 25" and had floppy ears. Scout (my third kelpie) was barely 18" and weighed about 27 lbs and looked more like a black and tan terrier x whippet...the kind you feel you could stick in your pocket. Noggin and Ned are both around 22" and I think they weigh about 43 lbs (c. 20kgs). 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Neal
correction

[Aussie Whip 3,822]

9 hours ago, Neal said:

I got lots of criticism from people telling me to feed my poor undernourished dog! But that was just his natural physique.

I don't know how many times I've been told that about my dogs,always from non dog people that have never seen a dog in peak condition.My Mrs had the RSPCA called on her about her pig dogs years ago,the officer laughed when she saw the awesome muscle and bone mastiff crosses and ended up getting the mrs to mind her dogs while on holidays,lol.

[Neal 1,784]

9 hours ago, Aussie Whip said:

I don't know how many times I've been told that about my dogs,always from non dog people that have never seen a dog in peak condition.My Mrs had the RSPCA called on her about her pig dogs years ago,the officer laughed when she saw the awesome muscle and bone mastiff crosses and ended up getting the mrs to mind her dogs while on holidays,lol.

I'm sure most people on this site will have similar stories to us on this subject. I always get complimented by my vet on the weight of my dogs whenever I take them in. He says if all dogs were the same build he wouldn't get so many dogs with heart conditions etc.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

On 09/08/2020 at 17:17, Neal said:

My first kelpie was Rusty who was bred by a shepherd in Wiltshire. Then I had two bitches Amber and Scout who were from a Welsh farmer who'd relocated to the Forest of Dean from Amroth. There was a four year gap between each of them but then I waited seven years before getting Noggin in 2014. He was bred by Tracy Huxtable who has a website: Devonairs Kelpies. When Noggin had his accident in 2016 I didn't want to be without a workable dog so went back to Tracy for a replacement. Unfortunately the pup I booked (Bailey x Maid who are both on her website) died at about a week old so I booked one from a future litter she was intending to make which was a repeat mating which had worked really well previously (Rock x Diamond.) She actually kept a bitch back herself as they were so good but gave it away to a farmer she knew who lost his dog suddenly at lambing time. However, while waiting for the mating to take place she told me about Ned's litter which was sired by a dog from the first mating of Rock x Diamond to another Devonairs bitch both owned by the same Welsh farmers (you can see Gem and Joey on Trefaldwyn kelpies website).

I bet you're wishing you hadn't asked now. I can talk kelpie pedigrees until the sheep come home.

Edited to add that Tracy also had a bitch pup from Ned's litter as she'd retired one of her Australian imports called Lucy (who's also Noggin's grand-dam) and the Ned litter had two lines to Lucy. I figured that if a farmer who breeds kelpies is getting a replacement from a particular place then that was a good enough endorsement for me.

You reckon folk like Tracy give their dogs proper graft ? Always feel better going to a farmer rather than a dog breeder / trainer. 

[Neal 1,784]

She is a farmer. I can fully understand what you mean, re when someone becomes known for breeding from their dogs more than their other livestock then the dynamic changes, but I assure you they get fully tested. Tony Parsons didn't give his Karrawarra dogs as much station work once they were used for breeding but nearly every stud in Australia includes their blood to a greater or lesser extent. I feel Tracy's strength is that she gives a lot of thought to the lines she's producing and which matings will work best as a result of tried and tested results. Some people just mate two good dogs together and hope for the best...sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn't. 

As for the Trefaldwyn kelpies...they've been awarded best lamb producer by Waitrose...what more praise could you ask?

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Sorry for late reply to this. I guess what I meant, is I see it similar to Lurchers and terrier and any working dog. You might have a dog that goes out once or twice a season and manages to get hold of a fox and you end up with a dead fox. But that doesn’t make a fox dog, and isn’t the same as a dog that’s out week in week out knocking them over. 
 

Similar with stock dogs, I see a lot of folk selling dogs and training dogs and breeding lines of dogs, and those dogs are lucky to see a couple of dozen sheep at a time, in small, fenced, fields. Same with farmers in general, the average flock of sheep in the U.K. is 300 ewes, there are lots and lots of flocks of 100-300, with dogs that push mobs of 50-100 sheep about a couple times a week, in small fenced fields. They look like good dogs, but thrown in at the deep end for some serious graft and they melt away it don’t have the head for it. 
 

Moving one of our mobs through the village this morning. 

[SheepChaser 8,082]

5 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Is that the average size flock down south? I’m sure they bigger up this way on average unless you count the wee hobby farms, I’d have thought it would have been hard to make money off such a small flock? Like iv said before I know nowt of sheep and don’t really want to, suicidal cnuts jist honestly thought they needed thousands to make any money

That’s uk wide I believe mate. Obviously there are plenty big flocks about. But even some of those big hill units are dropping stocking rates fast and chasing subsidy money or windmill money. Most of the real big sheep operations are probably lowland to be fair numbers wise. Due to opportunity of scale on arable farms. 
 

And you’re right you need a lot to make money. But most farmers I see are clueless anyway and have little hope of making much as they are stuck in the dark ages! 

[socks 32,253]

6 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

That’s uk wide I believe mate. Obviously there are plenty big flocks about. But even some of those big hill units are dropping stocking rates fast and chasing subsidy money or windmill money. Most of the real big sheep operations are probably lowland to be fair numbers wise. Due to opportunity of scale on arable farms. 
 

And you’re right you need a lot to make money. But most farmers I see are clueless anyway and have little hope of making much as they are stuck in the dark ages! 

Wait until I get my sheep and cattle ... this time next year Rodney ...........