What to get?

[Alsone 789]

15 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

Luck had nothing to do with it thank you.

There's plenty of regions where you'd struggle get .308 for fox. My own region now grants CF for fox, (don't know about .308), but at one time, wouldn't grant anything above .22lr for the 1st 3 years of FAC ownership irrespective of what you wanted to shoot. It was a rigid rule. There are plenty of people on here who have posted difficulties with obtaining CF from their region and have posted their region won't grant even .243 over .223. The problem is exactly what Derv mentioned above, they're guidlines and unfortunately guidelines cut both ways esepcially when one party has unlimited funding and the other party is a private individual who could face a £10K bill by making a Court challenge that was unsuccessful.

[Alsone 789]

11 hours ago, KimE said:

"Never get it in the UK as the Uk restricts calibre by prey size. You have to prove good reason to possess a calibre.
.30-30 is going to be deer as good reason not fox or rabbit. You'd never usually get a grant for fox alone. .357 mag or .45 colt might possibly get for fox being handgun calibres although size wise they probably exceed the typical bullet size commonly granted for that reason. Decisions however are made on energy not size, so a chance here depending on what energy they make from a 20" barrel. However, I'd expect no chance of either for rabbit."

Bullet size are a strange thing to go after .357mag have about the same energy level as .22hornet or .222r a short possible maximum range makes it safer than a .222r. Most 30-30 rifles doesn`t get to the energy level 2000j with a 154gr bullet so its only allowed for small game (up to and including beaver, roedeer) in Sweden.

 

"You were lucky to get .308 for fox alone as it's fall outside the guidance for fox."

A work mate use his 308w for small game and his 45-70 for moose and bear, the slow bullet of the 45 makes a small wound with little meat damage. Here are 9,3*62 a popular cartridge for most biggame species and smallgame as roedeer.

The UK rules are strange and based on a fear that if someone goes crazy, they'll shoot you deader if the calibre is larger. Of course, it doesn't really work that way as once you get in CF's, most aren't that survivable at close range anyway so it makes little difference whether it's a .308 or a 50 bmg. One may destroy more than the other, but either way once you reach the point of lethality, dead is dead. As the shooting organisations often say, it's the person who needs to be vetted not the calibre, but the fear of larger calibres still persists in the UK. eg. despite the prevalence of .50 bmg in the US, I don't believe there's ever been a case of anyone shooting at a helicopter or airliner with one, despite a high prevalence and relatively poor US vetting system. Yet in the UK, they're terified that derranged people will shoot down helicopters like swatting flies if .50 bmg 's are granted. Although it is possible to get one for target in the UK, it's rare and pretty much impossible for anything else. Several attempts have been made to ban the calibre entirely, despite pretty much not a single incident world wide I'm aware of. In fact any nutter on a rampage wouldn't get far with a .50 anyway simply because of it's size and weight. You try running with a 4ft gun weighing 30lbs bare. It's hardly man portable.

[Gav 1,708]

2 hours ago, Alsone said:

The UK rules are strange and based on a fear that if someone goes crazy, they'll shoot you deader if the calibre is larger. Of course, it doesn't really work that way as once you get in CF's, most aren't that survivable at close range anyway so it makes little difference whether it's a .308 or a 50 bmg. One may destroy more than the other, but either way once you reach the point of lethality, dead is dead. As the shooting organisations often say, it's the person who needs to be vetted not the calibre, but the fear of larger calibres still persists in the UK. eg. despite the prevalence of .50 bmg in the US, I don't believe there's ever been a case of anyone shooting at a helicopter or airliner with one, despite a high prevalence and relatively poor US vetting system. Yet in the UK, they're terified that derranged people will shoot down helicopters like swatting flies if .50 bmg 's are granted. Although it is possible to get one for target in the UK, it's rare and pretty much impossible for anything else. Several attempts have been made to ban the calibre entirely, despite pretty much not a single incident world wide I'm aware of. In fact any nutter on a rampage wouldn't get far with a .50 anyway simply because of it's size and weight. You try running with a 4ft gun weighing 30lbs bare. It's hardly man portable.

Damn I'll hold off on my variation at the end of lock down now

[BGA 117]

2 hours ago, Alsone said:

The UK rules are strange and based on a fear that if someone goes crazy, they'll shoot you deader if the calibre is larger. Of course, it doesn't really work that way as once you get in CF's, most aren't that survivable at close range anyway so it makes little difference whether it's a .308 or a 50 bmg. One may destroy more than the other, but either way once you reach the point of lethality, dead is dead. As the shooting organisations often say, it's the person who needs to be vetted not the calibre, but the fear of larger calibres still persists in the UK. eg. despite the prevalence of .50 bmg in the US, I don't believe there's ever been a case of anyone shooting at a helicopter or airliner with one, despite a high prevalence and relatively poor US vetting system. Yet in the UK, they're terified that derranged people will shoot down helicopters like swatting flies if .50 bmg 's are granted. Although it is possible to get one for target in the UK, it's rare and pretty much impossible for anything else. Several attempts have been made to ban the calibre entirely, despite pretty much not a single incident world wide I'm aware of. In fact any nutter on a rampage wouldn't get far with a .50 anyway simply because of it's size and weight. You try running with a 4ft gun weighing 30lbs bare. It's hardly man portable.

Are you aware of any forces "clearing" land for certain calibres any more? 

I thought they had stopped doing that but the other day a friend of mine said he had been refused a .30-06 on the basis that the land he requested it over was only cleared for .243. 

makes no sense to me. 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

12 minutes ago, Gav said:

Damn I'll hold off on my variation at the end of lock down now

Do you get many helicopters up your way Gav?

How about a 20or30 mm Mauser, do boats then as well!

[philpot 4,927]

4 hours ago, BGA said:

Are you aware of any forces "clearing" land for certain calibres any more? 

I thought they had stopped doing that but the other day a friend of mine said he had been refused a .30-06 on the basis that the land he requested it over was only cleared for .243. 

makes no sense to me. 

Yes, Humberside are 'clearing' land, in fact I submitted a listing of all our perms so that they can check them out before I put in for a .223 / ,243. We did this as there was a huge backlog of enquiries/processing so my pal and myself asked the licensing dept to remove them off our variation request as we wanted the wmr rifles quickly and could come back to the .223/.243 later this year.

I have not bothered about chasing things up with the corvid 19 issues, no point in being a prick or at least more so than usual 

Phil

[M0SAD 89]

I have 3 rimmies, all CZ 455;s, you could say i'm a bit of a fan of them...got them in .22LR, .22 WMR and of course .17HMR. The .22LR for it's subsonic capabilities on vermin and AOLQ, the .22WMR is conditioned for fox control and AOLQ (II use it for shorter range fox work ). The .17HMR is conditioned for vermin control and AOLQ ( Great for longer rabbits and crows etc ). The little .17HMR 17gr VMax i use are devastating on vermin and unless it's fairly windy they are like a laser beam. Out of the three rimfire cals i have i would say that the WMR is better in the wind yes, I use 40gr Vmax or CCI TNT in mine and it does not mess around.

All in all i think for the most part the .22WMR is both an under used and underestimated calibre in the UK, but for what it is it is a little beast of a cartridge. In many cases when going out foxing i've left the .223 at home and grabbed my WMR. It certainly does the job on charlie.

Anyway, treat yourself, put in a variation for a .17 AND a .22WMR ( You know you want to really  ) 

[KimE 487]

"but at one time, wouldn't grant anything above .22lr for the 1st 3 years of FAC ownership irrespective of what you wanted to shoot."

Thats crazy so you have to shoot fox with an underpowered .22lr? In Sweden young/new hunters with a hunting examina can get 4 hunting firearms, rifles and shotguns in the beguinning. Then you hunted a few years you can get additional two firearms but you have to specify what to use them for (an example .22lr class 4 game crows, .222r roedeer,beaver, 6,5*55 birds in top,deer stalking, shotgun 12*70 ,driven game, shotgun 12*76 goose gun , 9,3*62 driven big game) . No legal age are set by law for owning a firearm in Sweden but its a "guideline" what 18 are the normal age if you have special reasons (during college education hunting, biathlon, international competition) you can get a .22lr or shotgun license at age 15-17.

" It was a rigid rule. There are plenty of people on here who have posted difficulties with obtaining CF from their region and have posted their region won't grant even .243 over .223."

Wow UK really has strange fimearms rules. Why doesn`t you/they apply to use a .243w for deer instead?

"a private individual who could face a £10K bill by making a Court challenge that was unsuccessful."

Doesn`t you have any firearms right organisation to help to take a case to the court?

[BenBhoy 4,706]

Just now, KimE said:

Doesn`t you have any firearms right organisation to help to take a case to the court?

@Meece

[Sausagedog 7,381]

48 minutes ago, KimE said:

"but at one time, wouldn't grant anything above .22lr for the 1st 3 years of FAC ownership irrespective of what you wanted to shoot."

Thats crazy so you have to shoot fox with an underpowered .22lr? In Sweden young/new hunters with a hunting examina can get 4 hunting firearms, rifles and shotguns in the beguinning. Then you hunted a few years you can get additional two firearms but you have to specify what to use them for (an example .22lr class 4 game crows, .222r roedeer,beaver, 6,5*55 birds in top,deer stalking, shotgun 12*70 ,driven game, shotgun 12*76 goose gun , 9,3*62 driven big game) . No legal age are set by law for owning a firearm in Sweden but its a "guideline" what 18 are the normal age if you have special reasons (during college education hunting, biathlon, international competition) you can get a .22lr or shotgun license at age 15-17.

" It was a rigid rule. There are plenty of people on here who have posted difficulties with obtaining CF from their region and have posted their region won't grant even .243 over .223."

Wow UK really has strange fimearms rules. Why doesn`t you/they apply to use a .243w for deer instead?

"a private individual who could face a £10K bill by making a Court challenge that was unsuccessful."

Doesn`t you have any firearms right organisation to help to take a case to the court?

While our laws are dumb yes we are not restricted to a 22 at first.

Where most go wrong with our system is they ask if they can have etc. The licensing department take that as it is not required! We have to give a good reason to posses any rifle. As long as we write down a good reason it will be granted within reason.

Shotguns shall be granted to the applicant. Although they (the licencing authority) don't like it any citizen in the UK is entitled to a shotgun licence sans serious criminal activities/history.

[Meece 1,957]

1 hour ago, BenBhoy said:

@Meece

That previous post doesn't  make any sense at all.  But a lot of posts on here don't.  I don't know if it is predictive text or illiteracy or being passed up or just jumbled brains. Then there  is  the general corruption of words. In my case it's usually predictive text.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Meece

[BenBhoy 4,706]

21 minutes ago, Meece said:

That previous post doesn't  make any sense at all.  But a lot of posts on here don't.  I don't know if it is predictive text or illiteracy or being passed up or just jumbled brains. Then there  is  the general corruption of words. In my case it's usually predictive text.

I don't think English is his first language but he was wondering if we have an body that stands up for us as shooters & ensures our voice is heard.....I thought you could shed some light on that one!! 

[philpot 4,927]

2 hours ago, M0SAD said:

I have 3 rimmies, all CZ 455;s, you could say i'm a bit of a fan of them...got them in .22LR, .22 WMR and of course .17HMR. The .22LR for it's subsonic capabilities on vermin and AOLQ, the .22WMR is conditioned for fox control and AOLQ (II use it for shorter range fox work ). The .17HMR is conditioned for vermin control and AOLQ ( Great for longer rabbits and crows etc ). The little .17HMR 17gr VMax i use are devastating on vermin and unless it's fairly windy they are like a laser beam. Out of the three rimfire cals i have i would say that the WMR is better in the wind yes, I use 40gr Vmax or CCI TNT in mine and it does not mess around.

All in all i think for the most part the .22WMR is both an under used and underestimated calibre in the UK, but for what it is it is a little beast of a cartridge. In many cases when going out foxing i've left the .223 at home and grabbed my WMR. It certainly does the job on charlie.

Anyway, treat yourself, put in a variation for a .17 AND a .22WMR ( You know you want to really  ) 

What does AOLQ mean, it is still early for me but I cannot work that one out.

Phil

[BenBhoy 4,706]

1 minute ago, philpot said:

What does AOLQ mean, it is still early for me but I cannot work that one out.

Phil

All Other Legal Quarry

[Stavross 13,720]

1 minute ago, philpot said:

What does AOLQ mean, it is still early for me but I cannot work that one out.

Phil

All other legal quarry ?