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Schutzhund dog training, guard, bite ect ect training.


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Great just for the training aspect, but don't ever think that a schutzhund dog will actually protect you.  The problem with this is that the dogs never get really tested under real pressure. It is all a game. Some will go forward. Others will fold. You never know until the time comes. 

Same with the tracking and searching. Unlike police dogs the schutzhund dogs never get a bad deal. Every exercise is guaranteed to give the dog a reward. So, if you put them to the test in a less than perfect environment some get confused.

As I say, it is a good way of getting something out of the dog, but don't confuse it with training a guard dog.

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5 hours ago, Nicepix said:

Great just for the training aspect, but don't ever think that a schutzhund dog will actually protect you.  The problem with this is that the dogs never get really tested under real pressure. It is all a game. Some will go forward. Others will fold. You never know until the time comes. 

Same with the tracking and searching. Unlike police dogs the schutzhund dogs never get a bad deal. Every exercise is guaranteed to give the dog a reward. So, if you put them to the test in a less than perfect environment some get confused.

As I say, it is a good way of getting something out of the dog, but don't confuse it with training a guard dog.

fair comment on the  above,  regards a guard dog, surely you still do some form sleeve work,like schuzhund work. for guard work.?  the dog or any dog for that matter  got want to bite a man, and not just guard/bark .ive said on here before , that a farm i used know, had big black Alsatian type dog, this was kept on a chain in the day, and let loose at night . this dog had bitten couple people, and had the police involved . the dog was going to be put down, as the last person he bit, had to go to hospital  with damaged arm  and bust hand ,  a fit strong 90 lb dog  , do massive damage , i know from my own dog with his size/strength  jaw power what he can do, good job he soft temp with people/ dogs . that farm dog the big gsd ,  was not  trained , just very territorial dog, and nothing or nobody was going on his ground  . and regards dogs biting power , y brother was bitten by our dalmatian   years ago, this was only norm size dog of that breed, 25 in  60lb , it clamped on to my brother hand, when he tried put the dog out for a piss early morning , dog didnt want to go out as it been raining that morning . my brother said the pain was real bad, said it felt if somebody slammed  a door shut on his hand, now that just norm size dog, so something like that big farm dog, or other big breeds that are just plan nasty, you be in shit street if they grabbed you deff, jigsaw on here got well bred gsd guard dog , and it stopped lot of the scum , getting in to his place;)

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It's not just about biting a sleeve. There is little or no risk to that exercise. Some dogs will happily bite a sleeve all day long. But will they hang on when the 'criminal' fights back? The police test the dog's willingness to face danger before they train it to bite. A schutzhund dog does not need that quality as it is never going to be tested.

A lot of dogs bite for the wrong reason. Fear biting is one of the worst traits to have in a dog and can be very difficult if not sometimes impossible to train out of them.

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How is a dog moved on from sleeve work to the real thing?  I think you could teach any breed of dog to rag  a padded sleeve, but bringing down  a fugitive/ mugger when there isn't a bite- me -here sleeve to seize is a different scenario.  How is a dog trained to bite the real thing?  How do the majority of attack dogs react when they are clouted for real? There must be a lot who can go through  the motions but are put off as soon as it's stops becoming fun?

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1 hour ago, jukel123 said:

How is a dog moved on from sleeve work to the real thing?  I think you could teach any breed of dog to rag  a padded sleeve, but bringing down  a fugitive/ mugger when there isn't a bite- me -here sleeve to seize is a different scenario.  How is a dog trained to bite the real thing?  How do the majority of attack dogs react when they are clouted for real? There must be a lot who can go through  the motions but are put off as soon as it's stops becoming fun?

Its about how they are trained to bite the sleeve.schutzhund dogs are trained exclusively with prey drive techniques so it is little more than a game just like running and jumping to hang on a tyre ot a tug toy.Ive had terriers that would slam into a sleeve that didn't have a protective/defensive bone in their body.A protection dog and a schutzhund/sport dog should be trained using completely differnt techniques.The last thing you want in a protection dog is something that becomes sleeve/equipment focusd.

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1 hour ago, downsouth said:

Its about how they are trained to bite the sleeve.schutzhund dogs are trained exclusively with prey drive techniques so it is little more than a game just like running and jumping to hang on a tyre ot a tug toy.Ive had terriers that would slam into a sleeve that didn't have a protective/defensive bone in their body.A protection dog and a schutzhund/sport dog should be trained using completely differnt techniques.The last thing you want in a protection dog is something that becomes sleeve/equipment focusd.

So how do you train a protection dog to bite the real thing and not just a sleeve?

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33 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

So how do you train a protection dog to bite the real thing and not just a sleeve?

Hidden sleeves and train using defence drive so it actually wants to bite.There is probably more im missing but Ive only had experience handling dogs with much more experienced people decoying who would definitely be able to explain a lot better than me.Plus you obviously need the right dog thats willing to stick at it when under pressure as opposed to being continuously rewarded on the bite.

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Thanks mate. I've always been curious about that. I remember years ago there was footage of a mass prison breakout. IRA prisoners I think. The prison officers released the GSD guard dogs which gleefully ran alongside the escapees. Not one of the dogs tried to bring the prisoners down. Back to the drawing board for those mutts.lol

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40 minutes ago, jukel123 said:

Thanks mate. I've always been curious about that. I remember years ago there was footage of a mass prison breakout. IRA prisoners I think. The prison officers released the GSD guard dogs which gleefully ran alongside the escapees. Not one of the dogs tried to bring the prisoners down. Back to the drawing board for those mutts.lol

Ive seen people thinking their dogs are doing well on the working field barking and going mad at the decoy.Only to spin round and start barking and staring at my pal 100yds away because hes waved a sleeve or a bite pad in the air

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17 hours ago, jukel123 said:

So how do you train a protection dog to bite the real thing and not just a sleeve?

First thing is to test the dog otherwise you are wasting your time. If the dog won't go forward and protect you from a threat then it will not be worth training it.

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I have mostly kept lurchers and gun dogs but I have had 2 GSDS. Both were noisy wussies but they did the trick at keeping undesirables away. The only dog I've personally come across which meant serious harm was a collie we had when I was a kid. It was a psycho when roused. Serious operator on both canine and human foes. Had a particular dislike of binmen and anybody in uniform......very handy because with a houseful of teenage boys who were always up to something or other, it took a determined cop to knock on the door.Lol

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A lot of dogs bite through fear and collies are probably one of the worst breeds for that. The  police / prisons / army test the dogs before they are trained to bite. Sometimes though because of issues with finance, time and politics some dogs get through the screening that are never going to protect the handler. You were always told to get a bite under your belt early on after finishing training so that you knew that you could trust your dog to defend you. Some handlers though were happy to have non biting dogs because they never intended going into situations where the dog would be tested.

There are at least three types of biter. The 'flute player' gets hold tentatively with the front of its mouth and goes up and down the arm like someone playing the flute and never gets a proper grip. Then you have the 'clamp' that gets hold with a full mouthful and never lets go or adjusts its hold. The worst is the 'shark' as they get hold then shake the victim and can cause serious injury by tearing out muscles and severing tendons. Over the years I realised that dogs that followed a certain type of look often performed the same in lots of ways. The big boned ginger rough haired type were often the 'sharks' but they also were the ones to suffer most through age and didn't work as long as the smaller smooth coated mainly black type.  It was good fun while it lasted.

Incidentally, in my time more police dog handlers were hospitalised through bring bitten by their labradors than GSDs. Trying to get food off a dog searching for drugs or explosives was the main cause. ?

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