Lead ban

[philpot 4,925]

5 minutes ago, Baldcoot said:

New batteries needed every 3/4 years and you pay .Prius service exchange 1700 of your quids, the famous Nissan leaf around 3000 of your pounds. Mmmm not so economical to run are they and mr mechanics have to fit them I believe the price "how much,bloody hell" 

That is shocking.  Then add the electricity cost to charge the buggers during the life of the battery...................................................maybe a 4 x 4 push bike.

Phil

 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

What the bloody hell is wrong with hydrogen fuel cells?

Why do these idiots keep missing the obvious?

[philpot 4,925]

I seriously believe there are considerable moves to produce the hydrogen fuel cell that can be used for domestic use cars but if I recall the biggest issue was the safety aspects but that is above my pay grade so no knowledge of what that entails.  It does however seem a far better route to take which in turn means they never will.

Phil

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Hydrogen is no more dangerous than a huge electric discharge making a vehicle a fire ball in an accident!

[BenBhoy 4,706]

2 hours ago, philpot said:

I can just see the length of queing cars waiting to get on a charger.

And add into that mix the length of time it actually takes a single car to fully re-charge, not as simple as holding petrol nozzle in for 3 minutes. 

Enjoy your time in God's own country (born & bred North Wales boy!!) 

[Baldcoot 2,352]

My employers are investing 14 million in hydrogen cell tech but the goverment dont wont that cos its extracted from ooh now whats that stuff oh yes WATER and their shares and directorships in batttery carp become worthless ,1955 the yanks perfected Hydrogen  power and the oil companies went oh fnuck ,bought the patent and set fire to it .

Dont forget 2030 china stops making diesel/petrol cars and here thanks to boris,s tree hugga mrs 2035 so opec stinky arab rip off merchants are scheming and scamming to keep the gravy coming in and were paying 

We should be driving hydrogen cars and diesel <far cleaner than petrol by the by>but the green bull monkeys have twisted the press news on their side and no one will rock the boat 

[Gav 1,708]

I'm sure ford bought the rights to a hydrogen engine years ago and dismissed it, protecting their oil rights was the conclusion??

[philpot 4,925]

Had a quick look Tim and that is an eye watering cost from the public charger.  I will take some time and digest the info.

Nice one Tim

 

Phil

[Alsone 789]

9 hours ago, .357shooter said:

we should just do as the flinstones.electric cars will not catch on

I disagree. The performance of electric vehicles leaves petrol in it's wake. It's biggest Achilles heel is range but in the long term it looks as if supercapacitors will eventually be able to replace batteries, and these never wear out, charge in seconds and have the potential for huge range. There's a lot of research in this area atm.

8 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

What the bloody hell is wrong with hydrogen fuel cells?

Why do these idiots keep missing the obvious?

Hydrogen, yup, lets all drive a bomb / steel shell full of colourless, odourless and tasteless highly flammable gas. That worked out well for the Hindenburg.

3 major issues with Hydrogen:

1. It takes a lot of energy to produce it - you have to split water using lots of electricity

2. Only a small amount is highly explosive when mixed with air (bearing in mind in the event of a leak it is odourless, colourless and tasteless:
 

3. Without air in pure form (unlikely in a leak scenario), it still doesn't end well:
 

Personally, I'll take my chances with the batteries.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Alsone

[Ted Newgent 4,896]

1975Mauritania hunting laws prohibit use of toxic ammunition for large game and sport hunting.

1980Liberia bans lead shot due to military coup.

1985Denmark hunters initiate use of nontoxic shot.

1989

1990

1991USA bans the use of lead shot over wetlands. Norway bans lead shot in wetlands for hunting of all ducks, geese, and waders.

1992

1993South Australia, Australia bans the use of lead shot. Victoria, Australia bans the use of lead shot during duck season.

Denmark bans the use of lead shot over wetlands. Cyprus bans the use of lead shot over wetlands. Germany bans the use of lead shot over wetlands in 8 Lander and recommends voluntary use of nontoxic shot over all wetlands. Belgium bans the use of lead shot over Ramsar wetlands. February-Netherlands bans the use of lead shot for hunting over wetlands. 1994

1995Victoria, Australia bans the use of lead shot for duck hunting. Netherlands bans the use of lead shot in all hunting. UK instills voluntary use of nontoxic shot over wetlands. 1996Denmark bans the use of lead shot in all hunting. Finland bans the use of lead shot over wetlands.

1997Canada bans the use of lead shot for hunting migratory game birds near water.

1998Switzerland bans the use of lead shot for hunting over wetlands and shallow water areas. Belgium bans the use of lead shot over all wetlands. Northern Territory, Australia bans the use of lead shot during duck season.

1999England prohibits use of lead shot over wetlands and for all waterfowl.

Canada bans the use of lead shot for hunting all migratory game birds (with a few exceptions).

2000Japan bans the use of lead bullets for deer hunting in Hokkaido. Latvia bans the use of lead shot over wetland special protected areas. Spain bans the use of lead shot at Ramsar sites. Denmark bans the import of all lead products including ammunition.

2001Queensland, Australia instills voluntary ban on the use of lead shot over wetlands. 1 June-Spain bans the use of lead shot over all wetlands.

2002Sweden bans the use of lead shot over wetlands.Wales bans the use of lead shot over wetland sites of special scientific interest. Sweden bans the use of lead shot for clay pigeons. 2003

2004Netherlands bans the use of lead shot for clay pigeons. Tasmania, Australia bans the use of lead shot over public wetlands and Crown Land.

2005Hungary bans the use of lead shot over wetlands.

31 March-Scotland bans the use of lead shot over wetlands. Norway bans the use of lead shot for all hunting.

2006New Zealand bans 10 and 12 gauge shot for waterfowl near water. France bans the use of lead shot over wetlands.

2007Camp Roberts, California, USA bans all lead ammunition for hunting. Fort Hunter Liggett, California, USA bans lead ammunition for hunting.

2008Tejon Ranch, California, USA bans all lead ammunition for hunting.Camp Roberts, California, USA bans use of all lead shot and ammunition for hunting. California, USA bans the use of lead ammunition when taking big game and coyotes in the California Condor range in California. Sweden enacts a total ban on lead shot and ammunition. Belgium considers a total ban on the use of lead shot. Portugal proposes a ban on the use of lead shot in wetlands.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

5 hours ago, Alsone said:

I disagree. The performance of electric vehicles leaves petrol in it's wake. It's biggest Achilles heel is range but in the long term it looks as if supercapacitors will eventually be able to replace batteries, and these never wear out, charge in seconds and have the potential for huge range. There's a lot of research in this area atm.

Hydrogen, yup, lets all drive a bomb / steel shell full of colourless, odourless and tasteless highly flammable gas. That worked out well for the Hindenburg.

3 major issues with Hydrogen:

1. It takes a lot of energy to produce it - you have to split water using lots of electricity

2. Only a small amount is highly explosive when mixed with air (bearing in mind in the event of a leak it is odourless, colourless and tasteless:
 

3. Without air in pure form (unlikely in a leak scenario), it still doesn't end well:
 

Personally, I'll take my chances with the batteries.

You are misinformed about the Hindenburg. It was nothing to do with hydrogen. It was the design of the casing and the type of paint used that held an electric charge from the electrical storm it had passed through.

Hydrogen burns with a near invisible flame. The highly visible flames from the Hindenburg show clearly there was a problem with the paint and casing material, it was too inflammable! The hydrogen did not explode at all.

Fuel cells are designed to produce hydrogen on demand, keeping the volume of hydrogen down. You don't need to fill a huge tank of it etc and only a small amount is needed per the firing cycle.

As for the sarcasm about driving on a bomb....we all do now anyway.

Millions of vehicles have exploded and killed, burnt and maned.

Personally I fear for technicians working on electric vehicles! The average vehicle technician cannot diagnosis nothing on today's vehicles even with their diagnostic tools! Millions of them are going to die from poking a screwdriver in the wrong place on these electric vehicles!

As for performance, where you gonna use all your extra performance Alsone?

Between one pot hole to the next? Or to pass one vehicle your stuck behind so you can sit behind another? When they are all automated, what is the extra performance going to do then?

You clearly live in a dream world, a world of black and white, no grey areas to mess it up for you. Good luck.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Want to live in a lead free world?

It's gonna take a while!

https://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele082.html

[.357shooter 991]

question where does lead come from and where does it go when we have shot it ?

[Dervburner 2,548]

https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintageguns.co.uk%2Fmagazine%2Fcartridge-makers-push-back-on-lead-shot&amp;data=02|01||0d9eb27c12a8470ce20808d7bd0ade8b|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|637185726683853022&amp;sdata=lZJKK3l%2Blrlv89j%2F6FFZreS223cIm%2FZEcPqNgUL%2Fr3s%3D&amp;reserved=0

[Alsone 789]

5 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

You are misinformed about the Hindenburg. It was nothing to do with hydrogen. It was the design of the casing and the type of paint used that held an electric charge from the electrical storm it had passed through.

Hydrogen burns with a near invisible flame. The highly visible flames from the Hindenburg show clearly there was a problem with the paint and casing material, it was too inflammable! The hydrogen did not explode at all.

 

I'm fully aware there wasn't an explosion on the Hindenburg, that was someones sensationalist title to the video. You've seen in the other video what only a small amount of H and O2 do together, several hundred millions of gallons mixed with air would have devastated buildings, trees and killed people for tens of miles. Hydrogen only explodes if mixed with oxygen. The cause of the Hindenburg disaster is actually unknown but speculation includes sabotage, someone smoking inside an area where a cell was leaking triggering a smaller explosion and fire that ignited the other cells of pure Hydrogen, and static electricity. Either way, to say the hydrogen had nothing to do with it is a misleading - it's the hydrogen that burnt. No hydrogen no fire. In pure form it burns fiercely and easily with high temperatures, which is why many of those who escaped the airship were still burnt on the ground. Even the commentators who were hundreds of yards away were commenting on the heat. It's true many tout it as safe as petrol. My argument there is you can smell and see a petrol leak. You're never going to know if hydrogen has leaked and filled you interior.

As for hydrogen as a vehicle fuel, just look at where all the manufacturers are going, 99% are going the electric route. Look into Estonia - the world's leading country for battery technology. The research route is going down the super capacitor route. I believe tesla are already starting to produce hybrid batteries that use super-capacitors in conjunction with traditional LiOn cells. Supercapcitors reach full charge in seconds and can store huge amounts, much more than batteries. They also last for ever and never need changing in the lifetime of a vehicle (or beyond). The current issue with them is they like to discharge fast not slowly so research is going down the route of finding ways to control the discharge speed. There have been several recent break thoroughs though. I suggest you might want to follow channels such as fully charged and other battery technology channels before dismissing electric cars. Even a look at the general car market as it is today, shows dozens of models now with more all the time - everyone from Ford to Porsche and even Lambourghini has electric cars under development and touts them as the future, https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/models/concept/terzo-millennio, there at least multiple brands of electric truck, electric buses, motorcycles and even superyachts of 100m that are now fully electric:  https://www.sunreef-yachts.com/en/60-sunreef-power  Hydrogen is going nowhere. It's been around for decades. Very few cars have ever been produced, only concepts  - I can't name a single production car off the top, and there's no infrastructure as there's little interest due to high cost of production and the fact that it takes huge amount of energy to produce hydrogen thereby making it un-green as you spend huge amounts of CO2 producing it. Ultimately, it will be infrastructure that will dictate who wins and loses.

You moan about performance as you want a slow cars, there's plenty of those around such as Nissan's Leaf, Toyotas Prius etc. The battery doesn't dictate the speed but the motor and that's down to the manufacturer's choice. Even then the car only goes as fast as you make it. Drive it slower and it goes further.

This video is over a year out of date but shows where it's heading:
 

Incidentally, the Lambourghini I mentioned above uses Supercapcitor Hybrid Batteries:

https://electrek.co/2019/09/04/lamborghini-sian-supercar-supercapacitors/

Edited February 29, 2020 by Alsone