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.22 LR ELR


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Interesting development at this year's shot show - a company is developing bullets for .22LR ELR.

I'd never heard of ELR myself but apparently it stands for Extra Long Range and rather than being a new cartridge, is a discipline where shooters shoot at 300-600 yds with .22LR.

Well, this company has produced solid copper bullets for .22 LR with a head design very much like a centrefire - one in a ballistic tip and the other just totally solid copper. Performance figures are unavilable atm as are bullet weights, but it's said to make .22LR a 300yd cartridge due to greater efficiency (standard powder loads I believe). I guess it's great for target ELR but the interesting item for field has to be the ballistic tip. Potentially, if a hunting round, this development could extend the range for bunnies etc considerably and fox maybe by a few yards. I'm going to say the ballistic tip is more for controlled expansion than anything as hydrostatic shock is unlikely at LR energies. Guess it's watch this space!

Video here about them:
 

 

 

Edited by Alsone
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1 hour ago, philpot said:

Certainly looks interesting but is ELR mainly a target load or is it used for hunting as well because I have no knowledge of it, like many things in life when I think about it........

Phil

Only one reason to use ballistic tips in my opinion ?

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14 hours ago, Alsone said:

Interesting development at this year's shot show - a company is developing bullets for .22LR ELR.

I'd never heard of ELR myself but apparently it stands for Extra Long Range and rather than being a new cartridge, is a discipline where shooters shoot at 300-600 yds with .22LR.

Well, this company has produced solid copper bullets for .22 LR with a head design very much like a centrefire - one in a ballistic tip and the other just totally solid copper. Performance figures are unavilable atm as are bullet weights, but it's said to make .22LR a 300yd cartridge due to greater efficiency (standard powder loads I believe). I guess it's great for target ELR but the interesting item for field has to be the ballistic tip. Potentially, if a hunting round, this development could extend the range for bunnies etc considerably and fox maybe by a few yards. I'm going to say the ballistic tip is more for controlled expansion than anything as hydrostatic shock is unlikely at LR energies. Guess it's watch this space!

Video here about them:
 

 

 

I don't get a couple of things here.

The lady says the copper and brass bullets are turned on a CNC lathe....expensive! They need swaging to keep long term costs down.

Secondly, 22 uses a heeled bullet and uses soft lead to offer some obturation to the barrel and seal the gasses behind.

There was no mention of this. Sealing the bullet in the bore of a low pressure cartridge is fundamental to efficiency and efficiency is paramount with a heeled bullet design. One can not simply increase pressure to overcome inefficiency!

In my opinion they would of been better streamlining a swaged lead bullet!

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Another example of hype and nonsense . This is more like it is in america where everything has to be modified just to make it different. A ton of money and development goes into things and then some bright spark recons that it would be better being something different. A bit like the creatures in mythology.  A woman cross fish. ( mermaid)  A man cross horse. ( centaur) A bull cross man ( minotaur).  There are sensible limits.

The drop on a lead 22 bullet is like a brick.  I've shot 22lr on a military 600 yard target and it definitely gets there and you wouldn't be standing there barring your arse as a target :: But  there is no way that under normal field conditions you would be able to judge distance enough to determine how much lift to give it.  I put the bottom of the lower crosshair about 2 ft above the butt bank  ( optically ). Probably 10 to 12 ft of drop to target !!   Even if you were shooting at targets the size of a car wheel , accuracy would be a bit variable to say the least.  At long distance I don't think that these bullets would have the speed to  expand reliably. And where would you ever use it ?  But its like Everest,   coz it's there.

edit.  Your more of a loon than I  previously thought  bunnies !

edit edit.. not you SD

Edited by Meece
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24 minutes ago, Meece said:

 

 

Another example of hype and nonsense . This is more like it is in america where everything has to be modified just to make it different. A ton of money and development goes into things and then some bright spark recons that it would be better being something different. A bit like the creatures in mythology.  A woman cross fish. ( mermaid)  A man cross horse. ( centaur) A bull cross man ( minotaur).  There are sensible limits.

The drop on a lead 22 bullet is like a brick.  I've shot 22lr on a military 600 yard target and it definitely gets there and you wouldn't be standing there barring your arse as a target :: But  there is no way that under normal field conditions you would be able to judge distance enough to determine how much lift to give it.  I put the bottom of the lower crosshair about 2 ft above the butt bank  ( optically ). Probably 10 to 12 ft of drop to target !!   Even if you were shooting at targets the size of a car wheel , accuracy would be a bit variable to say the least.  At long distance I don't think that these bullets would have the speed to  expand reliably. And where would you ever use it ?  But its like Everest,   coz it's there.

edit.  Your more of a loon than I  previously thought  bunnies !

edit edit.. not you SD

Well actually many would argue I am a loon but I'm ok with it ?

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I watched that vid and every sentence was a load of nonsense..  EG. yeah its a different world .... .it's got huge in the last year !!   They have customer ..  who is a voodoo dealer ??  They're really excited about it ?  They don't have any bullet weights yet !  And he is helping them get it down ??  ( they're touting stuff that doesn't exist and the type winner will be revealed?  Are you going to sell ammunition or bullets to reload ?  There's not a whole lot of 22 lr reloaders out there !!  (I'd never have thought that). We may have some stuff for those that want to do that ?  Most customers like me would rather just buy loaded 22lr ammo and  not reload! (he hasn't got a bloody clue). It's not a whole lot of fun reloading 22lr.  When's it going be ready ?  we're hoping for the spring !  this year is going to be the year of the 22 !!

Total and utter Bo....x. and I don't care if I'm a retro.  There are vids on YouTube of Redneck survivalist preper blokes trying to reload 22lr using ground up red match heads as priming compound.  the resulting test reloads were so bad that if, or when the round fired they had massive difference of velocity and you couldn't hit the barn door from 10 yards.  Still you'll be able to shoot bunnies with the solid copper bullets at 300 yards.  Yeah right.

 

Edit.   And no it's not you SD.  

Edited by Meece
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8 hours ago, Meece said:

 

 

Another example of hype and nonsense . This is more like it is in america where everything has to be modified just to make it different. A ton of money and development goes into things and then some bright spark recons that it would be better being something different. A bit like the creatures in mythology.  A woman cross fish. ( mermaid)  A man cross horse. ( centaur) A bull cross man ( minotaur).  There are sensible limits.

The drop on a lead 22 bullet is like a brick.  I've shot 22lr on a military 600 yard target and it definitely gets there and you wouldn't be standing there barring your arse as a target :: But  there is no way that under normal field conditions you would be able to judge distance enough to determine how much lift to give it.  I put the bottom of the lower crosshair about 2 ft above the butt bank  ( optically ). Probably 10 to 12 ft of drop to target !!   Even if you were shooting at targets the size of a car wheel , accuracy would be a bit variable to say the least.  At long distance I don't think that these bullets would have the speed to  expand reliably. And where would you ever use it ?  But its like Everest,   coz it's there.

edit.  Your more of a loon than I  previously thought  bunnies !

edit edit.. not you SD

Hey I just reported it, I don't know the claims. 

Presumably, if it's making 300yds "usable" I would presume there's less drop and more carried energy due to lower air friction. I only watched it once and don't have time to re-watch it prior to work this morning, but I seem to remember the woman talking about boat tails and friction. Boat tail designs are well established for long range shooting due to better aerodynamics in flight. Can't tell if it's boat tailed or not inside the neck but boat tail or some improvement boat tail like, could increase range. Certainly compared to the rough and sometimes ridged exterior of traditional lr bullets, which seem very roughly cast, a very smooth slick copper projectile should have less drag.

I am aware there are people already making 500-600yd target shots with LR. There are plenty of vids on Youtube and ELR seems to be all centred around this, so if they're claiming something new, presumably it's down to better flight characteristics and lower friction. Only time will tell if this is a red herring or step forward.

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