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micky

THE VICTORIA CROSS

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40 minutes ago, Meece said:

Not with fixed bayonets they haven't mr mainwaring.  It's the cold steel that they dont like. A ywsy the invading fellows of foreign origin are doing all the jobs that us idle British won't lower ourselves to do.  They'll also work for basic.  And be greatful.

They have fooled an entire generation into that mind set......they brought in that f***ing Windrush mob under that excuse but really it was just so they could lower the bar for everybody.

They then chucked a couple of generations of our own people aside, paid them off with welfare and brought in more odd marks to do jobs those generations had happily done for years previous.

My family as far back as I can trace used to go hopping every summer as did thousands of Londoners, what happened to that?.

They don’t want a generation of native white Europeans with a work ethic....much too hard to control, nah, lower the bar with odd marks instead and keep everyone down.

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2 hours ago, Meece said:

Lots of countries were on the loosing side but they are no different to us and have their freedoms and normal lives Eg Italy & Japan.  This pride thing is often heard but when did pride ever come in the frame of real life.  My grandmother was reaĺy proud of the fact that her husband had marched off to war,  gotten blown up and the country gave her nothing in return.  Two young children.  No dole or benefits nothing.  Living on a meagre  war widows pension in a  damp cold town with no garden or access to anything. Her health failed and she got pneumonia . And that's not a lot different today when bloke leave the services through getting killed today. The wife and children  get booted out of their house.  Great pride in that.  Pride is a sort of fairy land.

That’s not quite true 

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20 hours ago, jetro said:

Fighting and Waring is in our DNA, since the time before the Romans lol.

It's hardwired into our species. If you look at conflict and the development of technology they go together like peas and gravy. The default setting of humanity is violence and poverty. Ground zero. Everything we have we've worked together and built. If you look at the middle east right now that is what a reset looks like. Our polite society is simply a great thing that can end at any time and without much warning.

I heard this saying a few times over the years. My dad said he'd heard it from his grandad, my great-grandad, who fought at the Somme but I've seen it pop up in memes and those sweet little captioned graphics that appear allover these days.

"Hard times create hard men.

Hard men create good times.

Good times create soft men.

And soft men create hard times."

Watching the world turn and rich folk threatening poor folk with war I can't think of a more poignant quote for 2020 and hats off to the bloke that originally penned the quote! Keep your knives sharp and you powder dry, lest we forget...

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18 hours ago, Meece said:

We're they brave, or stupid or just doing what they were told either through cultural expectations or conditioning. Two generations of my family have been devastated by ww1 and ww 2.  Grandfather was killed in France in www and is planted near Bethune.  He had been a skilled French polished and furniture restorer.  Married with two small girls.  Father was a mechanical engineer married with two small girls.  He was a fit strong young man when he was sent to Burma.  He did come home but was a wreck .  Basically he never really recovered from the physical and mental trauma of the conditions and what he saw and endured. What for ? A death plaque and a few medals.  The wives and children suffered a lot.  I can't type her all the bad things that happened to them.

My grandad was in Burma as well......he was in tanks.....joined up in 39.......Europe ..North Africa....finished in Burma fighting the japs...finished in 45.....

he never spoke much about it....that generation didn't .....but one of the few things he did say was he was 12 stone when he joined up......when the fighting finished and he weighed 7 stone.....he was never a prisoner of owt...it's just they had no suplies...and as the japs retreated they poissend everything all food  and water

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Hard times create hard men.

Hard men create good times.

Good times create soft men.

seen this written before, never turer words written.

it will all come to an end someday, don't know if I want to be here when it does, but out of the ashes the Phoenix will rise, so to speak .

Atb j 

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1 minute ago, jetro said:

Hard times create hard men.

Hard men create good times.

Good times create soft men.

seen this written before, never turer words written.

it will all come to an end someday, don't know if I want to be here when it does, but out of the ashes the Phoenix will rise, so to speak .

Atb j 

I've seen it a lot over the years and you're right, I can't think of a better one at the moment. The phoenix rose twice from the ashes in the 1900's. In 1918 and again in 1945. Look at the globe and it's burning in many places. Literally in some. You can only hope we learn from the mistakes of those that come before us but sadly many don't study history and are thereby doomed to repeat it. The next generation seems to ignore the failures of the previous and around we go again... Lock and load! :laugh:

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1 minute ago, ChrisJones said:

I've seen it a lot over the years and you're right, I can't think of a better one at the moment. The phoenix rose twice from the ashes in the 1900's. In 1918 and again in 1945. Look at the globe and it's burning in many places. Literally in some. You can only hope we learn from the mistakes of those that come before us but sadly many don't study history and are thereby doomed to repeat it. The next generation seems to ignore the failures of the previous and around we go again... Lock and load! :laugh:

It's the nature of the beast, since the dawn of mankind there has been wars, and unfortunately there always will be, but the major difference now is, the next one could be the last, with the amount of nuclear weapons at is around the world.

Atb j 

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2 hours ago, TOMO said:

My grandad was in Burma as well......he was in tanks.....joined up in 39.......Europe ..North Africa....finished in Burma fighting the japs...finished in 45.....

he never spoke much about it....that generation didn't .....but one of the few things he did say was he was 12 stone when he joined up......when the fighting finished and he weighed 7 stone.....he was never a prisoner of owt...it's just they had no suplies...and as the japs retreated they poissend everything all food  and water

My Dad served in Burma and was in the Royal engineers. On odd occasions we spoke about his time out there and what had seen done and witnessed. He was  involved with getting the supplies and ammunition from the docks in Rangoon up the Irawadi and chindwin rivers through the jungle right up to near the  Chinese boarder.  Considering that occasionally he got to places of relative civilisation it was a terrible situation.  They had no food or medicines. Everything rotted out very quickly and they were in rags of what was left of their uniforms. One night they were tied up alongside the bank when a Jap boat came down the river and machine gunned them. He along with others were asleep in tents and had two legs shot off of his camp bed.  The RAF dropped a pallet of food into the river for them but it was tins of Sardines or similar and it must have been left out in the sun because the tins had all blown up like footballs.  the fish was all rotten and they couldn't eat it.  The locals thought that it was fantastic and traded chickens and other? meat for it.  They also ate snake, iguana and some sort of monkey along with a bit of jungle fruit but the fruit gave them more rots than they already had.  He went down like a Belsen prisoner, got sores because they couldn't wash in hot water / no soap, got malaria and all of his hair fell out !!  There was a big battle and the corpses were thrown into the river.  At a bend in the river the black bloated bodies log jammed the river and he said that you could walk across the river on the bodies.  To proceed up the river they rigged the body dam with explosives and blew them up. This resulted in bits of the  rotten bodies rained down like rancid meat steaks.  Stray japs who had been lost and abandoned in the jungle emerged a mass of maggot ridden puss filled sores.  Our lads didn't even have medicines for themselves let alone enemy soldiers.  They ended up in the 18 knot current of the river.  one time it got a bit serious and close.  The Japs made a push and got real close but our troops countered and beat them back.  Our casualties were loaded onto the barges and brought back down the river system to Rangoon.  Dad came back from Burma in about 46/7 to sod all.  The war was all over and the country was on its knees and broke.  There was no social help or sympathy.  Post traumatic stress disorder ?  what's that.  Still Grandad helped him by taking him out shooting and got him a little dog.  Eventually he stumbled on and worked on marine stuff out on the Rhine in Germany.  His marriage stumbled on but was never the same.  a return fit for heroes ?

Ps.  One year Out of the small sugar ration Mum made him a Dundee cake and sent it off wrapped up in a  brown paper parcel for Christmas.  He did get the cake,  somewhere up the jungle about April along with the bar of wrights coal tar soap in the parcel so he could have a wash in the river.  The problem was that due to the heat the cake was tainted with the coal tar soap.  Dad shared it with his mates and they all thought that was marvellous.  She had never been more than twenty miles from the village once or twice so had no idea of how far it was away or the conditions that he had to suffer. 

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11 minutes ago, Meece said:

My Dad served in Burma and was in the Royal engineers. On odd occasions we spoke about his time out there and what had seen done and witnessed. He was  involved with getting the supplies and ammunition from the docks in Rangoon up the Irawadi and chindwin rivers through the jungle right up to near the  Chinese boarder.  Considering that occasionally he got to places of relative civilisation it was a terrible situation.  They had no food or medicines. Everything rotted out very quickly and they were in rags of what was left of their uniforms. One night they were tied up alongside the bank when a Jap boat came down the river and machine gunned them. He along with others were asleep in tents and had two legs shot off of his camp bed.  The RAF dropped a pallet of food into the river for them but it was tins of Sardines or similar and it must have been left out in the sun because the tins had all blown up like footballs.  the fish was all rotten and they couldn't eat it.  The locals thought that it was fantastic and traded chickens and other? meat for it.  They also ate snake, iguana and some sort of monkey along with a bit of jungle fruit but the fruit gave them more rots than they already had.  He went down like a Belsen prisoner, got sores because they couldn't wash in hot water / no soap, got malaria and all of his hair fell out !!  There was a big battle and the corpses were thrown into the river.  At a bend in the river the black bloated bodies log jammed the river and he said that you could walk across the river on the bodies.  To proceed up the river they rigged the body dam with explosives and blew them up. This resulted in bits of the  rotten bodies rained down like rancid meat steaks.  Stray japs who had been lost and abandoned in the jungle emerged a mass of maggot ridden puss filled sores.  Our lads didn't even have medicines for themselves let alone enemy soldiers.  They ended up in the 18 knot current of the river.  one time it got a bit serious and close.  The Japs made a push and got real close but our troops countered and beat them back.  Our casualties were loaded onto the barges and brought back down the river system to Rangoon.  Dad came back from Burma in about 46/7 to sod all.  The war was all over and the country was on its knees and broke.  There was no social help or sympathy.  Post traumatic stress disorder ?  what's that.  Still Grandad helped him by taking him out shooting and got him a little dog.  Eventually he stumbled on and worked on marine stuff out on the Rhine in Germany.  His marriage stumbled on but was never the same.  a return fit for heroes ?

Ps.  One year Out of the small sugar ration Mum made him a Dundee cake and sent it off wrapped up in a  brown paper parcel for Christmas.  He did get the cake,  somewhere up the jungle about April along with the bar of wrights coal tar soap in the parcel so he could have a wash in the river.  The problem was that due to the heat the cake was tainted with the coal tar soap.  Dad shared it with his mates and they all thought that was marvellous.  She had never been more than twenty miles from the village once or twice so had no idea of how far it was away or the conditions that he had to suffer. 

Nice to know the history, enjoyed that mate..

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A couple of years back an old friend asked me to research his family tree. I came across a relative of his from Australia, a sheep farmer; Major Edgar Towner MC VC. Took out a German machine gun post during 30 hours of fighting and 20 years later went back for some more.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/towner-edgar-thomas-8834

Words cannot properly describe the heroics of people like him. Between the wars he was reported to be a humble, quietly spoken giant of a man.

 

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