Ted Newgent 4,896 Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, jetro said: Why don't they just set up a tag system like they have in the states and Canada. Say 5 tags per person. That should reduce the population, and generate money at the same time, and everyone get a fair chance at it. Atb j i would fly back for that 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mushroom 12,352 Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 They have a law in Alaska "wanton waste" it's their biggest wildlife crime law. Even edible roadkill is recovered by charities and the meat distributed. UK should employ a tag system and enforce hunters to utilise the meat or donate. All hunters should have to take a course (fieldcraft, dressing a carcase etc) before being included in the tag scheme. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,622 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, sussex said: At the moment there is a glut of venison , prices are at the lowest I’ve ever seen them ..I was quoted 75p lb before Christmas ( when the price usually is at its best ) that is reallydog meat money ...most non hunting shooting fishing types haven't got a clue about game meat and wouldn’t even try it let alone buy it ..their happy with bland factory reared chicken wrapped in polystyrene and cling film .. The big supermarkets are bringing venison in from NZ , I think this year it’s up around 5-7 thousand tons , sadly the supermarkets aren’t interested in our wild sourced deer because they have no real control of the logistics .. Do you think that if this low price is sustained then it'll lead to guys that are currently culling quite large numbers cutting back? Frankly it might well make stalking more accessible if the lads doing a lot have their profits slashed. PS I do acknowledge that you are one of those lads. Edited January 16, 2020 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sussex 5,776 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Born Hunter said: Do you think that if this low price is sustained then it'll lead to guys that are currently culling quite large numbers cutting back? Frankly it might well make stalking more accessible if the lads doing a lot have their profits slashed. PS I do acknowledge that you are one of those lads. To maintain the stalking I have I have got to cull regardless of the price , as for having profits slashed your assuming there is a profit to slash .., by the time I take all the costs including travel , chiller , highseats etc into account I'm certainly not getting any where near making a living out of it. My permissions were won with trust , reliability and getting the job done over several years, the land owners wouldn't contemplate allowing unknown people on there land especially with regards to safety . I'm responsible for every one I take out on there land .I cant tell you how many people who really wanted to come out , really wanted to get into stalking fall by the wayside when the weather's shite, there other half starts kicking off , the meet is three o'clock in the morning , they know it will be a late finish the excuses are endless .I stick with three or four lads that I know will turn up , are safe , can shoot and dont mind the messy bit at the end of a long cold wet day . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,622 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, sussex said: To maintain the stalking I have I have got to cull regardless of the price , as for having profits slashed your assuming there is a profit to slash .., by the time I take all the costs including travel , chiller , highseats etc into account I'm certainly not getting any where near making a living out of it. My permissions were won with trust , reliability and getting the job done over several years, the land owners wouldn't contemplate allowing unknown people on there land especially with regards to safety . I'm responsible for every one I take out on there land .I cant tell you how many people who really wanted to come out , really wanted to get into stalking fall by the wayside when the weather's shite, there other half starts kicking off , the meet is three o'clock in the morning , they know it will be a late finish the excuses are endless .I stick with three or four lads that I know will turn up , are safe , can shoot and dont mind the messy bit at the end of a long cold wet day . Okay, perhaps 'profit' was an unfair word. If my sport was paying for all costs I'd consider that good, never mind contributing to my income. If the revenue is slashed do you think that'll knock back some of the lads culling numbers that far exceed what they can process without a commercial market? Your landowners won't let anyone else on because they are used to the status quo. They don't need to because you do your job, which has been economical under historic conditions. Are folks like you gonna want to maintain your historic activities and will lads in the future work up to such levels when the economics aren't there? Or cut back/keep down to more modest levels? Therefore demand for stalkers increasing in line with obvious market pressure... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,093 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 22 hours ago, Greyman said: Not only do most folk not hunt but even sadder most of them would not know what to do if you gave them a deer for free, we are so removed from reality it is scary and it’s only taken 40/50 years to happen, as a young boy walking down the road with my air rifle I would have old folk constantly asking for a rabbit or two and the local butcher would take pretty much any animal I could get to the back door un noticed, kids now are actually unaware of were or how most of there meat comes from, it’s just a lump of pink stuff in a polystyrene tray with cling film on that you buy in supermarkets, I strongly agree with ethical vegetarians who could not or would not kill so don’t eat meat, but think all kids should be shown the process of were there meat comes from and how it is raised and prepared so they can at least make up there own minds instead of just following the crowds Bang on mate... Made sure my kids knew exactly where meat comes from, they were out ferreting from 3 years old, weve grown veg, foraged for mushrooms, nuts, berries, fruit etc...caught and cooked fish...I hope it gives them a more rounded view point.... Fin can not believe some of the kids in his school and their views, but it's only how you educate them... I don't think they will have the love of it all like many if us do, there is so much more going on in a youngsters world now... but they have a few skills to fall back on and will always understand nature and our part in it all .. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaaark 10,112 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Bang on mate... Made sure my kids knew exactly where meat comes from, they were out ferreting from 3 years old, weve grown veg, foraged for mushrooms, nuts, berries, fruit etc...caught and cooked fish...I hope it gives them a more rounded view point.... Fin can not believe some of the kids in his school and their views, but it's only how you educate them... I don't think they will have the love of it all like many if us do, there is so much more going on in a youngsters world now... but they have a few skills to fall back on and will always understand nature and our part in it all .. Did that with my lads. Oldest one is still well into all of it. Youngest, who's just turned 12 in december, has lost all the enthusiasm that he was showing, apart from fishing, which he still likes. Like you say, life for kids is so different these days, you can barely keep up with the changes that are happening in almost all walks of life. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sussex 5,776 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Born Hunter said: Okay, perhaps 'profit' was an unfair word. If my sport was paying for all costs I'd consider that good, never mind contributing to my income. If the revenue is slashed do you think that'll knock back some of the lads culling numbers that far exceed what they can process without a commercial market? Your landowners won't let anyone else on because they are used to the status quo. They don't need to because you do your job, which has been economical under historic conditions. Are folks like you gonna want to maintain your historic activities and will lads in the future work up to such levels when the economics aren't there? Or cut back/keep down to more modest levels? Therefore demand for stalkers increasing in line with obvious market pressure... The demands on stalking increase year on end , the land owners I work with have both had problems in the past with people who have had permission to shoot /stalk not sticking to agreed practice this then makes them very wary about letting others on .One of my places has a lot of a activities running all year so the idea of different people on site wouldn't be acceptable. If I stopped he would just get someone else to do it , not open it up , same as the other farm they want one person not lots of different people .. Farms that use the stalking as income tend to have either the stalking let or the estate has it's own stalker taking out paying guests and as such wont make any difference because they will up the price of the stalking to offset the lack of return for the venison .low prices in my opinion is a loose loose scenario I cant see it opening up stalking to the masses .. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,622 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, sussex said: The demands on stalking increase year on end , the land owners I work with have both had problems in the past with people who have had permission to shoot /stalk not sticking to agreed practice this then makes them very wary about letting others on .One of my places has a lot of a activities running all year so the idea of different people on site wouldn't be acceptable. If I stopped he would just get someone else to do it , not open it up , same as the other farm they want one person not lots of different people .. Farms that use the stalking as income tend to have either the stalking let or the estate has it's own stalker taking out paying guests and as such wont make any difference because they will up the price of the stalking to offset the lack of return for the venison .low prices in my opinion is a loose loose scenario I cant see it opening up stalking to the masses .. Fair. I don't think it'll play out quite like that. Long term, recreational stalkers will be more likely to limit the number of permissions they are responsible for and it'll probably encourage more syndicates to do the job one man was doing before. All in all allowing more opportunity. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,179 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) On 15/01/2020 at 19:08, jukel123 said: You will not be surprised to learn I AM in favour of public land ownership. The Highlands are owned by a few absent non Scots, who, since victorian times have used it as their their private sporting theme park. The SNP are talking bolshie about redistributing land to we peasants. The sooner the better. Trees need to grow here, wolves and lynx reintroduced. It would cost next to nothing to compensate farmers for their losses. Let's face it they are massively subsidised anyway. They are compensated at the moment for sea eagle lamb predation and they do well out of it. Would love to see bonnie Scotland re-wilded. Ahh, here’s one I can reply to actually having seen what the other side of the coin from well keepered estates owned and maintained by wealthy landlords looks like. Your idea sounds fantastic in theory don’t it, redistribute the land back to the common man and all that old bollocks.....let me tell you, it’s a wildlife disaster ! As you may or may not know, ireland has no culture of keepered estates or lords or anything like that. Many of Its great country houses, formerly residences of lords have been allowed to fall into disrepair and ruin......no doubt all of that from kicking out the “nasty” British and it’s feudal System of lands and titles and the estates that go with it. There is f**k all game compared to Britain and Scotland and I mean f**k all ...it’s lads shooting 3 skinny wild Pheasants A season and never replenishing the stock, same with deer (if you get to see any in numbers !) .......just the difference in the condition and numbers of pheasants between Ireland and the UK is stark. There’s plenty of grey crows if you like them!!......except you can’t decoy because you get nicked if you get caught by the silly wildlife police ! Crows and not much else is the order of the day. The keepered estates are the lifeblood of wildlife in the UK......give that to Jo Soap and it will be destroyed. Edited January 16, 2020 by WILF 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,179 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Balaur said: Take Wales as an example too or at least the black hills and south east valleys, vast swathes of land you can walk to your heart's content but not a lot else. I still miss the scenery and the freedom of it now, but never had any sport, suited some of the digging lads. Always need trees though , and I believe that is definitely the way forward, as for rewilding I just don't believe we have the size or population to allow it to work. But anything is possible I guess... Moving to Ireland wrecked my hunting mate.......I was all excited when I was first going to move thinking “out in the sticks all on my own, I can leather gear until my hearts content “........how wrong was I ! Its literally barren !........they have gun clubs over there and that areas club is allowed to hunt over big tracts of land.....they are clowns ! They would rather spend money on clay f***ing pigeons than buying a few birds and rearing them. They see one pheasant in a hedge and texts are flying backwards and forwards in the group as they cum in their pants and that is no exaggeration. I won’t shoot at a pheasant on my land, I feed them but I don’t shoot them because you just don’t hardly see any. I have seen one fallow in 5 years !! Rabbits don’t exist in the west and hares again I won’t touch because you don’t see enough. Compare that to Scotland in September or October with 80,000 pink foot in the sky or North Essex with its wilds herds of 50 to 60 fallow, roe, muntjac. Bedford and Norfolk with its Chinese water deer......all the product of rich lords of yesteryear Pheasants as plump as turkeys and in fine condition pecking round every hedgerow. The dales and it’s rabbits Managed farms where you can see 50 of the finest hares you will see all sitting on one field in the lamp beam. A free for all without backers in wildlife is pure shite and leads to no game or wild life at all Edited January 16, 2020 by WILF 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,179 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Balaur said: I had similar hopes in Romania and France mate, but although there is game , they take a very communist approach and it's becoming less affordable for most, very little money seems to go into replenishing stock or game management. In west Romania where we were shepherds with a dozen starving dogs seemed to clear most small game, saying that I put up more stuff on my own with the dogs but bumping into semi feral sheep dogs and feeling every farmer was going to report back, I even joined the hunt in order to try and integrate a little but I no longer enjoy guns and although I took pleasures in seeing a few good pointers working it wasn't really my bag. My parents were in France and that had a bit to go at, ragondin were definitely interesting, a few roe and fox but again heavy bureaucracy and every man and his dog is in the local chasse . I think a big part is having misconceptions about a new place, no doubt if I'd have been able to spend enough time in either place I'd have found a niche , probably got a dog that suited the hunting and terrain, learned the lingo , met a few like minded folk , learnt the hotspots and maybe found some real wilderness to hunt undisturbed. But I didn't have much time in either place with working away, and in some respects it prolonged my misconceptions. Hopefully you can find something to go at and maybe a few hotspots , maybe rear and release a couple of hundred pheasants, and then while they're chasing them you can go find that fallow lol.... There’s just not enough to give a dog anything like a decent amount of work mate......not proper work. I just can’t find the heart for it, bumping into the odd things is no good for a dog....a dog needs graft, heavy graft and plenty of it. Id rather watch stuff now, when there’s f**k all to start with I just can’t bring myself to kill it. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jetro 5,349 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, WILF said: Moving to Ireland wrecked my hunting mate.......I was all excited when I was first going to move thinking “out in the sticks all on my own, I can leather gear until my hearts content “........how wrong was I ! Its literally barren !........they have gun clubs over there and that areas club is allowed to hunt over big tracts of land.....they are clowns ! They would rather spend money on clay f***ing pigeons than buying a few birds and rearing them. They see one pheasant in a hedge and texts are flying backwards and forwards in the group as they cum in their pants and that is no exaggeration. I won’t shoot at a pheasant on my land, I feed them but I don’t shoot them because you just don’t hardly see any. I have seen one fallow in 5 years !! Rabbits don’t exist in the west and hares again I won’t touch because you don’t see enough. Compare that to Scotland in September or October with 80,000 pink foot in the sky or North Essex with its wilds herds of 50 to 60 fallow, roe, muntjac. Bedford and Norfolk with its Chinese water deer......all the product of rich lords of yesteryear Pheasants as plump as turkeys and in fine condition pecking round every hedgerow. The dales and it’s rabbits Managed farms where you can see 50 of the finest hares you will see all sitting on one field in the lamp beam. A free for all without backers in wildlife is pure shite and leads to no game or wild life at all I'm from the west of Ireland, can't get any further west than where i live, and it's all true what you said. Especially about the club's. I was a member of a few local ones years ago. All they wanted was clays. I asked why aren't we doing vermin control and raising birds. The committee had their usual excuses, no one could be bothered. There's no fallow or Sika around me, but plenty of reds. More of them than any other game And plenty of rangers. Doing what, I don't know but their burning diesel going back and over the road. Atb j 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jetro 5,349 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, WILF said: There’s just not enough to give a dog anything like a decent amount of work mate......not proper work. I just can’t find the heart for it, bumping into the odd things is no good for a dog....a dog needs graft, heavy graft and plenty of it. Id rather watch stuff now, when there’s f**k all to start with I just can’t bring myself to kill it. And that's the reason I don't keep dogs or guns and more. Couldn't justify it. Atb j 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,179 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 8 hours ago, jetro said: And that's the reason I don't keep dogs or guns and more. Couldn't justify it. Atb j I keep my guns because living on a little farm in the middle of nowhere it’s always just handy to have them around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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