.17 HMR Fox- heart or heart shot? Plus ammo.

[FOXHUNTER 5,020]

17 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

My advice is don't go for the head, put one across the ribs and it'll go down.

Your Bobby hasn't seen my photos I guess re the 22!

Never had a 22 bounce of a fox's head or heard of it, that's a new one on me but then again I have only been doing it for thirty years.

Seen quite a few  .22 rounds richocet off rabbits heads but not fox as we used to neck shoot them which always put them down , chest shots that I have seen always producers runners in my experience. I haven't shot many foxes with my HMR as always take .243 but the ones I have were chest shot and had a mixture of dropping on spot or doing the death run.....only person to decide is the man behind the trigger ,.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Never seen that either, I have seen rabbits jawed and merely skinned by a 22 but a proper side on head shot I have never seen one bounce.

[FOXHUNTER 5,020]

10 minutes ago, Sausagedog said:

Never seen that either, I have seen rabbits jawed and merely skinned by a 22 but a proper side on head shot I have never seen one bounce.

Seen some strange things , once shot a hare with HMR taking both eyes out and it just sat there still alive . Unreal but happened. 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

14 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER said:

Seen some strange things , once shot a hare with HMR taking both eyes out and it just sat there still alive . Unreal but happened. 

Yes, seen that too with rabbits.

[David.evans 5,323]

Explain stav

why don’t you like 223 

just interested mate

atb 

[Stavross 13,714]

15 minutes ago, David.evans said:

Explain stav

why don’t you like 223 

just interested mate

atb 

I’ve just always felt it to be a bit of an odd round, not been deer legal in England I’d would always choose.243 over it, if I was wanting a dedicated fox calibre I’d probably go .22-250 because for me that covers all bases, very flat, very fast and for night shooting at distance just point and pull the trigger, I know a fair few people who shoot .223 to great effect ( robin foxer  for one ) so it’s clearly more than up to the job, one thing it definitely has going for it is it’s cheap to feed

[ZacB 110]

HMR will do the job but centre fire has to be the better option.

When lamping they don’t usually hang around so I’d say the shot is made pretty quickly usually - instinct more so than choice.

Night vision is definitely a game changer allowing shots to be placed and a HMR will certainly allow you to stick it where you feel most comfortable, all situations are different so just keep an open mind.

[Sausagedog 7,381]

21 minutes ago, Stavross said:

I’ve just always felt it to be a bit of an odd round, not been deer legal in England I’d would always choose.243 over it, if I was wanting a dedicated fox calibre I’d probably go .22-250 because for me that covers all bases, very flat, very fast and for night shooting at distance just point and pull the trigger, I know a fair few people who shoot .223 to great effect ( robin foxer  for one ) so it’s clearly more than up to the job, one thing it definitely has going for it is it’s cheap to feed

Talking of cheap I use to know an old keeper and he use to buy cheap 223 ammo, Chinese, South American. All fmj but what he would do is grind the tip off the bullet and he did it for years.

Then one year he bought a thousand rounds of Radway Green without realising it had a tiny tungsten tip inside the jacket so his grinder set up would not work! He then bought a thousand 55gn noslers and had me pull the RG bullets and seat the noslers in place.

He shot them for the rest of his career. They shot around 1" from his heavy barrelled Remington.

I dread to think how many foxes that old guy has shot snared and trapped over the years. He once trapped a thousand rooks, crows and jackdaws in the winter months with just twenty Larsen's made by himself along one hedge and flake maize!

Edited January 11, 2020 by Sausagedog

[ianm 2,594]

22 hours ago, Sausagedog said:

My advice is don't go for the head, put one across the ribs and it'll go down.

Your Bobby hasn't seen my photos I guess re the 22!

Never had a 22 bounce of a fox's head or heard of it, that's a new one on me but then again I have only been doing it for thirty years.

However i saw a HMR round bounce off a fox's skull one night which only succeeded in stunning it. A few seconds later it was back on it's legs and ran off like nothing was wrong with it. Hmr is a hateful little calibre and should be restricted to rabbits.

[vizlauk 1,568]

4 hours ago, Stavross said:

I’ve just always felt it to be a bit of an odd round, not been deer legal in England I’d would always choose.243 over it, if I was wanting a dedicated fox calibre I’d probably go .22-250 because for me that covers all bases, very flat, very fast and for night shooting at distance just point and pull the trigger, I know a fair few people who shoot .223 to great effect ( robin foxer  for one ) so it’s clearly more than up to the job, one thing it definitely has going for it is it’s cheap to feed

Interesting this section of the topic to me, I'm thinking about putting in for a variation,  mainly for dedicated fox, I had my mind set on 22-250, but after a visit to a couple of rfd I think I'm more likely to go 223 or just go 243, due to the ammo choice of 22_250 ; I was also advised that after 600 rounds plus a new barrel will be required on the 22-250, not sure if this is true !

So my mind set was 223, then when I looked at ammo costs, there's nothing in it between 223 & 243 , so I may just go 243 that will be the correct calibre for deer if I decide to go that way & more than enough for fox at distance. 

 

[ianm 2,594]

I know someone who shot the barrel out of a 22.250 and it only took thirty years.

 

[Sausagedog 7,381]

8 hours ago, ianm said:

However i saw a HMR round bounce off a fox's skull one night which only succeeded in stunning it. A few seconds later it was back on it's legs and ran off like nothing was wrong with it. Hmr is a hateful little calibre and should be restricted to rabbits.

I can't find the picture just now but I have a picture of a fox I waited for on dusk. It came and I got it. To my amazement it had a wound not from me but from a short time before by someone else. It's forehead was gashed open, a gash that a small but very fast light bullet would create!

The same shot with a bullet of more substance would compromised the skull. I have no proof what caused the wound but I know where my bet would go. That's the issue with 17 cal rifles using less than 25gn bullets. The density of flesh, skin and hair can turn or compromise the bullet it's self to easily with other than a perfect presentation.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Sausagedog

[BenBhoy 4,706]

Obviously my knowledge of rifle shooting is next to none (yet) compared to most of you fellas, but what's thoughts on 204Ruger?

[Sausagedog 7,381]

Never used it mate but understand it to be very flat.

When I was younger and had good eyesight we were always looking for targets at range.

We would pass on rabbits in the hedge we were stood next to but try for one hundreds of yards away! We would shoot foxes at 300yds at night too.

222,223,243,6.5&308.

In reality though it gets bloody expensive! It was great that on one estate the gaffer paid for ammo but when that stopped! Ouch.

I had squirreled away thousands of primers and bullets, some powders too but eventually it was used up.

I've gone full circle, just a couple of rimfires and do I shoot any less? No, not at all.

Whilst I think anyone that wants to shoot a large rifle should do so by all means but please don't think it will be a panacea. It will come with its own set of issues,pressures and costs.

For instance I recently checked out 17hornet wondering if I could be better off with one. Then I saw how much the rifles are! Then I saw how much the ammo is!! Then I thought about reloading again!!! I had to slap myself and ask " how much better off in the field would I really be". I came to the conclusion that I would not really know what to do with all the extra perceived vermin I would shoot with one!

And that's the nub, all the years I have shot I have forked out thousands chasing panaceas and for what? To shoot a crow or other varmint of little value over a great distance!

By all means scratch that itch but please be more realistic about than I ever was!

[nick703 446]

8 hours ago, vizlauk said:

Interesting this section of the topic to me, I'm thinking about putting in for a variation,  mainly for dedicated fox, I had my mind set on 22-250, but after a visit to a couple of rfd I think I'm more likely to go 223 or just go 243, due to the ammo choice of 22_250 ; I was also advised that after 600 rounds plus a new barrel will be required on the 22-250, not sure if this is true !

So my mind set was 223, then when I looked at ammo costs, there's nothing in it between 223 & 243 , so I may just go 243 that will be the correct calibre for deer if I decide to go that way & more than enough for fox at distance. 

I have 223 A’s a foxing setup and a 243 as deer an foxing rifle, the 223 is a lot quieter and slightly cheaper to run ,the 243 is ace for foxing  but most will not grant a 243 for just foxing ,an there’s very little in it between 22 250 an 243, I use 58g  superformance in the 243 , 3925fps