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14 hours ago, p3d said:

RH,

But check out the photograph of the "Patterdale Terrier" that he is referring to. Not a smooth black dog, the complete opposite.

A black dog doesn’t need a smooth coat to be a patterdale.

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12 hours ago, p3d said:

A very old photograph of a Bedlington, the man is Joseph Aynsley, a stonemason who is credited as the founder of the breed.

Compare the size of his stonemasons hand with the head of the dog on the right.

That is some lump of a dog,  a wide skull with a pronounced stop.

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Some difference in the head shape of those bedlingtons to today’s type, the dogs in the picture are well put together, near border like👍

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3 hours ago, rob284 said:

A black dog doesn’t need a smooth coat to be a patterdale.

We will have to come up with a new name for the smooth black dogs. How about a Nuttall terrier. 

Only joking, I thought the general view was that the smooth blacks were Patterdale and the wire haired were Fell. 

Correct me If I am wrong. 

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3 hours ago, rob284 said:

Some difference in the head shape of those bedlingtons to today’s type, the dogs in the picture are well put together, near border like👍

Thats what I think as well. Cant see how this type would create Dobson’s Topsy. That Bedlington photo is about 30 years before the Topsy photo. 

This is the advantage of photographs. If we can get our hands on them they give us a good idea of how the strains developed. One question jumps out of the Dobson photos. Why did they need to bring in White terriers from the South?

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12 minutes ago, p3d said:

We will have to come up with a new name for the smooth black dogs. How about a Nuttall terrier. 

Only joking, I thought the general view was that the smooth blacks were Patterdale and the wire haired were Fell. 

Correct me If I am wrong. 

I was brought up in the north of England and most of the black dogs around where big scruffy rough coated dogs, everyone called them patterdales and that’s what I’ve always called them. I suppose it’s subjective though and depends on what you’d picture a patterdale to look like. 

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I don't know if these old dogs were better than todays dogs but they had a hard workman like look that is lacking in a lot of modern dogs.Top pics fellas.

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14 hours ago, rob284 said:

I was brought up in the north of England and most of the black dogs around where big scruffy rough coated dogs, everyone called them patterdales and that’s what I’ve always called them. I suppose it’s subjective though and depends on what you’d picture a patterdale to look like. 

I’ve said this before,patterdale is a place in the Lake District it’s obvious that’s where they came from ,also some of frank bucks patterdales were rough coated,just like fell terriers ,the fells are in the lakes also they are most likely both the same ,crossbred, but some are from patterdale area,wf

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On ‎31‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 20:12, Bosun11 said:

Found some oldies i've never seen before, hope they are of interest...

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Those kids in that picture would be receiving counselling if you tried that today.

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2 hours ago, mackay said:

Those kids in that picture would be receiving counselling if you tried that today.

your probably right mate but its up to us as parents and role models to show and learn the younger generation the way of the country side the need for pest control that's why id have no hesitation take youngsters out and showing them the ropes as long as they where polite respectable and want to lean ask any my kids about pest control and what hounds terriers and so on are used for they will be able to tell you and about the need for them in the countryside and the two older ones don't hunt or have any interest

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