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philpot

Three new general licenses released

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Basically you`ll have to justify why you are shooting the pigeons to an officer of law if you get pulled up.

                 One of my shoots has a permanent gas gun cracking off approx` every 15 minutes, it`s around 360 acres in size , my nets won`t cover the fields and the pigeons take no notice of scarecrows. 

                  The local kids constantly nick the scarecrows as well .:rolleyes:

                 I regularly take 50 plus bags off the stubble before the farmer sows again as we expect the ground to get hammered as it always does.

                 I should stand ok with this i guess including the photographic proof i have also.

                 I think the crunch will come if you are found taking a pigeon or two when out for a walk with dog and shot gun in the later months, that were flying past, or just happened to be sat in a sitty tree.

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24 minutes ago, mark williams said:

Basically you`ll have to justify why you are shooting the pigeons to an officer of law if you get pulled up.

                 One of my shoots has a permanent gas gun cracking off approx` every 15 minutes, it`s around 360 acres in size , my nets won`t cover the fields and the pigeons take no notice of scarecrows. 

                  The local kids constantly nick the scarecrows as well .:rolleyes:

                 I regularly take 50 plus bags off the stubble before the farmer sows again as we expect the ground to get hammered as it always does.

                 I should stand ok with this i guess including the photographic proof i have also.

                 I think the crunch will come if you are found taking a pigeon or two when out for a walk with dog and shot gun in the later months, that were flying past, or just happened to be sat in a sitty tree.

Mark, shooting like this has been illegal ever since the GL came into force, but how many people completely ignored it?

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 Yes TT i agree.( Blue paragraph).

                Where i`ve mentioned where alternatives to shooting were tried and failed would that be deemed ok then shooting is ok ?

                I`m sure the lads will put each other right, should they need to on here in the future :good:

 

              atb  Mark

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12 minutes ago, mark williams said:

 Yes TT i agree.( Blue paragraph).

                Where i`ve mentioned where alternatives to shooting were tried and failed would that be deemed ok then shooting is ok ?

                I`m sure the lads will put each other right, should they need to on here in the future :good:

 

              atb  Mark

I think under the circumstances you've stated you'll be fine, but you still need proof of damage, a record of what you've done and when, what worked and what didn't. It's more difficult but realistically the chances of getting tugged are small, you just need to be prepared for it. I'm still unsure about "shoot to scare" or the use of decoys though. I hope that now DEFRA is taking control of the GL we may see something a bit more sensible eventually.

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https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/use-of-general-licences-for-the-management-of-certain-wild-birds-a-call-for-evidence/detail-of-call-for-evidence

have a read of this, the letter from NE just goes to show the complete ineptitude of tony juniper, I posted my reply in the rifle section so won’t go into it again, you can make your own minds up

 

on another note, just playing devils advocate here, but when the license says to keep records of none lethal methods, now just say in the unlikely scenario you were arrested for shooting pigeons and taken to court and asked to produce evidence that you tried everything before shooting them and you said I don’t have any evidence but I did do all them things and you will have to take my word for it, in any other criminal situation the prosecutions job it to prove you are guilty, it’s not yours to prove you are innocent so unless they have proof that you took no preventative steps how could they secure a conviction  

 

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Defra do not have control of the GL yet and may not do so as there is so much false info and until it is announced from the gov office, I don't believe anything from Gove is supposed to have said.

One thing we have is the three links I posted which is from the gov NE site so until otherwise stated, use them as they are laid out because that is what you have, nothing more and nothing less so speculation is a waste of time.

We have only just arrived home from holiday so I have not had time to really digest the content but will over the weekend and I for one will work on the basis that these new GLs are correct.

Phil

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9 minutes ago, philpot said:

Defra do not have control of the GL yet and may not do so as there is so much false info and until it is announced from the gov office, I don't believe anything from Gove is supposed to have said.

One thing we have is the three links I posted which is from the gov NE site so until otherwise stated, use them as they are laid out because that is what you have, nothing more and nothing less so speculation is a waste of time.

We have only just arrived home from holiday so I have not had time to really digest the content but will over the weekend and I for one will work on the basis that these new GLs are correct.

Phil

Just read this online in the Telegraph. Does this mean that the GLs issued are now redundant again? I also read that the NE is understaffed since two thirds of the staff were moved to concentrate on Brexit. So now they are experts in many fields? No wonder it's all going tits up! Also, could the tithead that writes these columns get the facts right? Is it Jupiter or Juniper?

Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, on Friday night took away the power to issue licences from Natural England, following an exchange of letters with its new head Tony Jupiter.

It came after angry Tory MPs demanded he “take back control” from Mr Juniper, a leading environmentalist and former head of Friends of The Earth.

The row was sparked when Natural England decided to revoke permits allowing farmers to cull 'pest' species of birds, such as crows and wood pigeons.

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11 minutes ago, philpot said:

Defra do not have control of the GL yet and may not do so as there is so much false info and until it is announced from the gov office, I don't believe anything from Gove is supposed to have said.

One thing we have is the three links I posted which is from the gov NE site so until otherwise stated, use them as they are laid out because that is what you have, nothing more and nothing less so speculation is a waste of time.

We have only just arrived home from holiday so I have not had time to really digest the content but will over the weekend and I for one will work on the basis that these new GLs are correct.

Phil

Think they took control 09.00 hours this morning if this link works Phil.. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-licences-for-controlling-wild-birds-letter-from-environment-secretary-to-natural-england-chair

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7 minutes ago, steg said:

What they haven't said is whether the new GLs issued by NE are still in force or are they now useless?

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16 minutes ago, steg said:

Hmmm it would appear that whilst I was preparing to return home, the magic roundabout has turned again so god only knows if the three new licenses are going to be used at all. Watch this space I guess.

Phil

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3 minutes ago, philpot said:

Hmmm it would appear that whilst I was preparing to return home, the magic roundabout has turned again so god only knows if the three new licenses are going to be used at all. Watch this space I guess.

Phil

It would appear that Gove is crapping himself! Jupiter or Juniper or whatever he's called appears to have surrendered control of the GLs in view of the flak that is flying. Gove has been hauled over and bum whipped by conservative MPs for allowing NE to show how completely useless and inept they are and have been for years. I just hope T May doesn't step in because she will hand control to Adolf Merkel who will only allow pigeon shooting by migrants who need the food and don't need to abide by our laws anyway. This will be policed by Junckers and Tusk who are drafting thousands of EU police into the UK to make sure that the only people who get prosecuted are white, British and trying to protect their way of life. 

Ok, the Euro police aren't here yet but being realistic, IF you got busted for shooting a pigeon and you weren't within the terms of the GL you would be done for shooting a protected bird. The same penalty as shooting a robin, a swallow, a wren or even God Forbid a swan!

So how many of our "brothers" from east of the English Channel have been prosecuted despite the evidence of piles of bones, feathers, dismembered carcases and witness statements?

From now on I'm called Marius Antonescu. I'll never get busted!

 

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I would not trust Gove for a moment, a sly little twat who deserves to be put in charge. BASC are in the process of writing to every MP in the land to apply pressure to get it sorted. Well I'm not sure that will do any good but for sure it will stir things up even more as the CLA, CA, NFU and a few others are supporting the move.

It would not surprise me if a temporary reversal was put into place while this whole mess is sorted so perhaps the 4  new GL  policies could be dumped BUT until that happens, the new GLs are in place so I do not see how anyone could be breaking the law by abiding by them. I have filed them in a folder and printing them before changes are made again.

Phil

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5 hours ago, Stavross said:

I agree with most of what you have said but up here the jackdaws and rooks are a real problem around the farm, For me I would like to see all the corvids on a pest list along with pigeons, I wouldn’t have a problem with jays not been classed as a pest, we will just have to see if defra come up with any bright ideas 

Different problems in different areas? I don't think I've ever shot a jay, haven't shot branchers for years but I have shot adult rooks on maize, jackdaws I usually leave alone because the major problem with them here is nesting in chimneys which is easy to prevent. That stance has cost me a good little permission this week because the owner decided if I won't shoot nesting birds he'll get someone else to do it and have all the rabbits at the same time. Fine by me.  I think we ALL need to respond to the DEFRA questionnaire in a sensible and responsible way. Put our point of view properly, get the landowners to do it as well.

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3 hours ago, timmytree said:

Mark, shooting like this has been illegal ever since the GL came into force, but how many people completely ignored it?

Well, if we’ve always been breaking the law, as in tekin’ 2-3 birds out a decent sity tree, then we might as well carry on as normal. If we’ve always been breaking the law... what’s changed if we do the same in the future. I guess it’s just the fact we “didn’t know we where” .

Had some bangin long rangers today... long range tree rats I mean 😁

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