pigeon shooting

[ChrisJones 7,973]

3 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

then it’s going to be used as a reason for not giving lads a FAC.

That's always been on the cards under the UN's Program of Action on Small Arms. The beauty of it in the UK is that they don't have to restrict firearms any further they simply have less reasons for an FAC in the first place. My understanding is that all birds are protected and any form of control requires ministry permission which will explore all options of prevention and cure. From my past dealings in public health lethal control has always been the last option. General license removes certain parameters from that process for certain species which means you now have to jump through all of the hoops to satisfy the legal requirements.

Packham is decent lobbyist and his intention is to save all the birds. The fact that it will help restrict firearms/airguns is purely coincidental but still valid and they'll use that when they meet with the UN on small arms review. It's truly win win for the ministry.

[dogmandont 9,329]

6 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

That's always been on the cards under the UN's Program of Action on Small Arms. The beauty of it in the UK is that they don't have to restrict firearms any further they simply have less reasons for an FAC in the first place. My understanding is that all birds are protected and any form of control requires ministry permission which will explore all options of prevention and cure. From my past dealings in public health lethal control has always been the last option. General license removes certain parameters from that process for certain species which means you now have to jump through all of the hoops to satisfy the legal requirements.

Packham is decent lobbyist and his intention is to save all the birds. The fact that it will help restrict firearms/airguns is purely coincidental but still valid and they'll use that when they meet with the UN on small arms review. It's truly win win for the ministry.

You’ve explained it better than I ever could Chris, I’ve a feeling once this door has been opened it won’t be last time it will be used against ordinary decent folks and country pursuits in general. 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

4 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

You’ve explained it better than I ever could Chris, I’ve a feeling once this door has been opened it won’t be last time it will be used against ordinary decent folks and country pursuits in general. 

It's a gradual errosion but the UK is so far down the rabbit hole, now, they're simply waiting it out. A generation, or two, and I sincerely doubt you'll be able to own anything legally. They don't have to pass any more laws they just have to make the process so longwinded and bureaucratic that the majority simply won't bother because it isn't worth the hassle. Combine that with a steady drip of clickbait articles on how pursuit X is wrong and you're left with their utopia where everyone sits inside and the only people outside are delivering sh*t to the people inside...

[dogmandont 9,329]

5 minutes ago, timmytree said:

I agree, but the problem here wasn't the antis. Natural England who issue the GL have got it wrong for years and were acting illegally.

That was challenged by Wild Justice who asked for the next lot of GLs to be rewritten in January next year to make them legal.

NE decided to revoke the GLs now and left everyone in a mess. It's a government dept. Completely inept. Had they admitted they were wrong in the first place(and their lawyers knew it) then none of this would have happened. The new GLs are being rushed and from the first one I've read it looks like being a shambles. You're even advised to use scarecrows seated with a "stick like a gun" and to try shooting to scare the birds instead. Thank you Natural England. The bloke in charge of NE by the way is a close friend of Packham, he started the job on wednesday, the same day the GLs were revoked.

I agree that the antis aren’t the problem but the system that allows them the power to do as they please. 

[dogmandont 9,329]

9 minutes ago, timmytree said:

They challenged a government dept that was acting illegally, are they wrong to want the law upheld?

All the hunting posts about shooting pigeons to eat or shooting corvids just because they are in range didn't help. Very few shooters were abiding by the GL and neither were Natural England. Although I don't like Packham I think any challenge to a government dept is right because they're nearly all useless and unfit for purpose.

Seems like the whole thing has been made very confusing for a reason Timmy and the only ones to gain from it will be the anti brigade. 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

37 minutes ago, timmytree said:

That was challenged by Wild Justice who asked for the next lot of GLs to be rewritten in January next year to make them legal.

NE decided to revoke the GLs now and left everyone in a mess. It's a government dept. Completely inept. Had they admitted they were wrong in the first place(and their lawyers knew it) then none of this would have happened.

While I tend to agree with you that will be 7 months that these birds will enjoy the additional protection outside special ministry permission. What are the odds this will all be ironed out by January? Maybe January 2023...

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 minute ago, timmytree said:

Where did you get that 7 months from Chris?

You. You stated in this post that they'll be re-written in January next year. So that's actually 9 months, not 7.

4 minutes ago, timmytree said:

The GL for carrion crows and protection of livestock has already been amended and issued. Most of them will be reworded and issued in the next month. If you read the thread in the airgun hunting section, I think page 14 I have posted a timetable of when NE expect to issue the GLs.

Fair enough, mate. I was just going off the information you posted earlier on. No worries. What restrictions will come in from this and has Packham wasted his time?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

8 minutes ago, timmytree said:

If you read that post again, Wild Justice asked for the GLs to be rewritten to comply with the law by the time of the next issue which is jan 2020.

 

Fair enough but in the original post you said in January.

1 hour ago, timmytree said:

That was challenged by Wild Justice who asked for the next lot of GLs to be rewritten in January next year to make them legal.

I'm not splitting hairs I'm just going off the information you initially provided. No worries though, we've clarified that.

What's in the new GL that will cause issue? Specifically which bits don't you like? Will it radically change rural pest control like a lot of the information flying around is suggesting?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 minute ago, timmytree said:

The new GL has a lot of stuff about keeping records of predatory attacks as proof, being able to prove you have tried other methods including shooting to scare rather than kill. Even suggestions on having a scarecrow in the field on a seat with a "gun shaped stick"

Keep moving it around until the crows get used to it, then swap clothes with the scarecrow and sit there with your gun, then when the crows come back you can shoot to scare them off. Now as I see it, if you can shoot to scare them off, we have no excuse to shoot to kill. Pathetic eh?

That is pretty pathetic and as I touched on earlier it's that next level of bureaucracy of that will make the next generation less likely to engage in what is an absolutely normal activity on the basis of it not being worth the hassle getting into it. Honestly? How many people would get into fieldsports without the guidance of a close friend or family member? Looks like airgunning and shooting will go the same way and the only way it will be carried it out in the future will be by licensed professionals who have the money to fund the operations. Or maybe the only ones who'll have the inclination will be the minstry themselves? Talk about creating a problem and then marketing the solution.

I've had a couple of licenses from the ministry years ago, for dealing with nuisance birds and the non-lethal methods always had to be considered first and the ministry would only sign off on lethal after we could demonstrate that all avenues had been explored. Extending this protection to pigeons and corvids is f*ck*ng bonkers, frankly!

[Elchapo 3,095]

Won’t stop me next weekend when I’m out blasting the flying little rats , police round here need focus on the kids walking round with knives never mind people doing pest control 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

4 minutes ago, Elchapo said:

Won’t stop me next weekend when I’m out blasting the flying little rats , police round here need focus on the kids walking round with knives never mind people doing pest control 

You're easier to catch. Until they have a national knife certificate and registry.