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Max Caysey

Looking for good advice concerning all-round rifle

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Hello everyone. I'm new here, and this place seemed to be as good as anywhere to ask my question. If my thread is posted in the wrong sub-forum, please move it.

Ok, so I'm a fairly new hunter and I'm looking to buy my first rifle. Now I don't have the economy for multiple specialized rifles, so I'm looking to get a rifle which I can use for a variety of game and situations and I am looking for advice concerning this.
I have been looking at the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine either as a 308W or a 30.06. I live in Denmark, so 90% of the time I will be shooting roe, fallow, sika and red deer. However, I would like to have to possibility to go to Sweden or Poland and take moose, wild boar or maybe bear. I would also love to be able to go to Scotland and be able to take red deer in the highlands.

So I have checked the legal requirements and within the 308 and 30.06 there are bullet types and weight that fit, however the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine only has a 20" barrel, and I would be concerned that the rifle would loose too much energy at 150m, especially for 308, which is basically the reason I have been thinking maybe 30.06 instead.

So, if I wanted an allround rifle which would be able to accommodate my wishes what would your suggestion be; both in terms of caliber and whether or not  the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine is a good choice for this kind of hunting!

Thank you in advice

Cheers

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Hello friend.

I have a lot of respect for you two choices but in all honesty never shot an 06. 308 yes.

The first thing that comes to mind is 308 will get the job done on all the species at 150 meters the only issue probably could be running boar! A less than ideal strike maybe a problem with running boar compared to a larger slug but high seat shots will be fine.

Now, as it happens I have owned 20" 308 and if 308 is known for many good things one is its efficiency from short barrels! 

I use to get from my 20" barrel 2610fps with a 170grn bullet that at 100 yds it wanted to shoot three bullets down one hole! I distinctly remember shooting a fox at 260 paces with that load !

The same barrel would give me 3100fps with 110grn bullets with a case full of h4895.

Whilst that bullet is light for your requests except for roe perhaps. My point is that from that 20" barrel I would shoot it to 400yds on varmints!

I never did take any reds with my 308 rifles but I did take Scottish reds with 243 and of all the 30cals 30wcf! The 30/30(30wcf) killed them just fine and is easy 500fps+ down from 308!

Does France still have military cartridge restrictions? If so 30/06 maybe a no go!

Two worthy cartridges friend that will serve you well, even from 20" barrels.

 

U.

Edited by Underdog

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First off a .308/30.06 isn't an ALL round rifle, but it will probably be ok for the generally larger stuff you are talking about.

One rifle solutions seldom work.

Good luck!

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I chose 30/06 as my deer calibre.  I had a few runners with 243 on Sika that had seen me,

even with good shot placement they can run a long way. After recovering one from the bottom of a ravine that had run i decided to try something else.  I had a slot on my ticket for 270 but a 30/06 came up at the right money  so i changed it and bought the 06. 

It is very versatile with bullet weights running from 110grns to 220grns.  It tends to just knock Sika off their feet and they don't run anywhere. If you are going to hunt moose i would like the extra oomph the 06 will provide but both calibres will do the job.

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I dare say the thirty aught six has killed more deer, large game and bears in North America than any other calibre.

Not a bad place to start the conversation based on that. My thoughts are that there's an awfully big difference between a 1500lb bull moose and a 50lb roe doe! Ideally youd have something in the 6 to 7mm range and then something like a 338.

Frankly mate, this probably ain't the forum for the experienced opinions of large and dangerous game hunters. @Ted Newgent is the only one that comes to mind.

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1 hour ago, Born Hunter said:

I dare say the thirty aught six has killed more deer, large game and bears in North America than any other calibre.

Not a bad place to start the conversation based on that. My thoughts are that there's an awfully big difference between a 1500lb bull moose and a 50lb roe doe! Ideally youd have something in the 6 to 7mm range and then something like a 338.

Frankly mate, this probably ain't the forum for the experienced opinions of large and dangerous game hunters. @Ted Newgent is the only one that comes to mind.

 

22 hours ago, Max Caysey said:

Hello everyone. I'm new here, and this place seemed to be as good as anywhere to ask my question. If my thread is posted in the wrong sub-forum, please move it.

Ok, so I'm a fairly new hunter and I'm looking to buy my first rifle. Now I don't have the economy for multiple specialized rifles, so I'm looking to get a rifle which I can use for a variety of game and situations and I am looking for advice concerning this.
I have been looking at the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine either as a 308W or a 30.06. I live in Denmark, so 90% of the time I will be shooting roe, fallow, sika and red deer. However, I would like to have to possibility to go to Sweden or Poland and take moose, wild boar or maybe bear. I would also love to be able to go to Scotland and be able to take red deer in the highlands.

So I have checked the legal requirements and within the 308 and 30.06 there are bullet types and weight that fit, however the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine only has a 20" barrel, and I would be concerned that the rifle would loose too much energy at 150m, especially for 308, which is basically the reason I have been thinking maybe 30.06 instead.

So, if I wanted an allround rifle which would be able to accommodate my wishes what would your suggestion be; both in terms of caliber and whether or not  the Sako 85 Bavarian carbine is a good choice for this kind of hunting!

Thank you in advice

Cheers

me personally would buy a 308,thats what i use on moose,elk,deer and wild boars.

i am using 165gr and its drops em right there.i do miss my norma 180gr bst bullets.308 ammo is cheap enough to buy

and so is 30-06

i mostly take head/ neck  shots.i dont think i have ever taken a shot passed 250m and the two kills that come to

mind have dropped like a stone.

 

as for wild boars,the 308 drop em,but i have also got a 7.62x39 for close up pig hunting.

 

 

at the end of the day,bullet type and bullet placement is crucial.also you have to get comfortable taking long distance shots.

i tend to veer away from taking them on big game but its a personal choice.

i dont understand why anyone would take a 400 yd shot,surely to fck you can sneak closer lol

my rifle is a short barreled remington LTR 20inch i am thinking

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34 minutes ago, Ted Newgent said:

 

me personally would buy a 308,thats what i use on moose,elk,deer and wild boars.

i am using 165gr and its drops em right there.i do miss my norma 180gr bst bullets.308 ammo is cheap enough to buy

and so is 30-06

i mostly take head/ neck  shots.i dont think i have ever taken a shot passed 250m and the two kills that come to

mind have dropped like a stone.

 

as for wild boars,the 308 drop em,but i have also got a 7.62x39 for close up pig hunting.

 

 

at the end of the day,bullet type and bullet placement is crucial.also you have to get comfortable taking long distance shots.

i tend to veer away from taking them on big game but its a personal choice.

i dont understand why anyone would take a 400 yd shot,surely to fck you can sneak closer lol

my rifle is a short barreled remington LTR 20inch i am thinking

Thank you for your reply...

This site was pointed out to me by someone in another forum: https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
By going over the data, and looking at the difference between a 24" rifle and a 20" rifle, one looses bout 200j at 100m. So about 50j per inch of barrel from 24" down to 20".

Would you consider this to be a problem... I mean a loss of about 200j compared to a 24" barrel?

Also I ran the same calculations on a 30.06, using Hornady's ballistic calculator and Sako's cartridge data. What I found was that a 20" 30.06 delivers about the same numbers that a 24" .308W...

Any thoughts on this? I mean would you still go for a .308W if it were only 20" barrel?



Cheers

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24 minutes ago, Max Caysey said:

Thank you for your reply...

This site was pointed out to me by someone in another forum: https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/
By going over the data, and looking at the difference between a 24" rifle and a 20" rifle, one looses bout 200j at 100m. So about 50j per inch of barrel from 24" down to 20".

Would you consider this to be a problem... I mean a loss of about 200j compared to a 24" barrel?

Also I ran the same calculations on a 30.06, using Hornady's ballistic calculator and Sako's cartridge data. What I found was that a 20" 30.06 delivers about the same numbers that a 24" .308W...

Any thoughts on this? I mean would you still go for a .308W if it were only 20" barrel?



Cheers

to be perfectly honest with you,i aint a ballistics kind of guy,the data make sense and the shorter barrel gives you less killing power.

my rifle has a 20inch barrel.its dropped everything i have shot.i have every faith in the 308 round.

i havent even once thought i need to change too something with a bit more omph

if you were to offer to buy my rifle i would say not a fckn chance in hell.

 

you know where you will be hunting,you know the type of shots you will be taking.

what grain of bullet are you thinking of using? that will also make a difference to the stopping power.

like i mentioned earlier i have only used 180gr and 165gr and both work fine for me.

i have shot moose,elk and deer with both types.my freezer is full of meat.

 

 

 

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22lr good all round rifle , takes awhile to get used to the  technique of clubbing a red stag as it runs past but can be done 

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what i can also add through my experience

dont even dream off using a 223 on wild boars,it never worked for me.

thats why i went with the 7.62x39

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In Denmark we have strict rules about wight of projectile and j at a 100m for the rifles to be legal.

Therefore I need a minimum of 139gr and 2700j at 100m, or a minimum of 155gr and 2000j at 100m. This is for red deer, fallow and sika. In Sweden the same numbers apply for moose.
 

I will by far primarily be hunting in Denmark (Roe, fallow, sika and red deer), but it would be nice to be able to take down moose. From a legal perspective a 20" .308W is enough, but my concern is that a 180gr bullet with 2300j at 100m is cutting it too close for comfort - even though its strictly legal. I don't want to risk injuring the animal because of too little stopping power, or because I'm a little more than 100m out...

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What's typical shot placement on the big stuff, Max?

Ted says he necks them with his 308 which I imagine makes it totally adequate for the job. But if you're expecting to double lung or heart shoot them maybe it does make the 308 marginal? Maybe not, I have no idea.

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2 hours ago, Max Caysey said:

In Denmark we have strict rules about wight of projectile and j at a 100m for the rifles to be legal.

Therefore I need a minimum of 139gr and 2700j at 100m, or a minimum of 155gr and 2000j at 100m. This is for red deer, fallow and sika. In Sweden the same numbers apply for moose.
 

I will by far primarily be hunting in Denmark (Roe, fallow, sika and red deer), but it would be nice to be able to take down moose. From a legal perspective a 20" .308W is enough, but my concern is that a 180gr bullet with 2300j at 100m is cutting it too close for comfort - even though its strictly legal. I don't want to risk injuring the animal because of too little stopping power, or because I'm a little more than 100m out...

you have you doubts on the 308,buy the 30-06 then

in the past 5 years i have dropped the two moose and one elk with my 308,no issues.

all neck/head shots.

 

the dozens of deer i have shot,the few heart/lung shots i have had a few runners but when opening them up,no heart was left or even no lungs.

they ran a max of 100yds.

the head/neck shots on the deer,they dropped like a stone

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Never ceases to amaze how many people think that if their bullet drops below a numeric value by a little it somehow will stop performing!

Stick a 5000j bullet of the wrong type in the wrong place of a game animal and you may never retrieve it!

Poke a medium bore revolver bullet through a game animals ribs and I guarantee it is dead! 

The two examples are numerically miles apart but fortunately physiological factors don't do maths!

 

U.

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49 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Never ceases to amaze how many people think that if their bullet drops below a numeric value by a little it somehow will stop performing!

Stick a 5000j bullet of the wrong type in the wrong place of a game animal and you may never retrieve it!

Poke a medium bore revolver bullet through a game animals ribs and I guarantee it is dead! 

The two examples are numerically miles apart but fortunately physiological factors don't do maths!

 

U.

I totally see your point but in Denmark, where I'm from there are restrictions or requirements in terms of weight of bullet and energy. Red deer, fallow and sika requires a minimum of 139gr and 2700j at 100m or minimum 155gr and 2000j at 100m. The same numbers are the Swedish requirements for moose. So that's why I'm concerned... if the riffle in question can perform to these numbers... or if they get too close, that might be what I want.

But true enough, I know its about placing the shot and not like a  video game where a certain gun does a certain amount of hit points damage...

Thank you all for your comments

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