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The thing is that this is small fry (sorry ? ) in the greater scheme of things but it has come to epitomise the stalemate between the EU and the UK. I brought this up on another forum two years ago and the Remoaners were all saying that the fishing agreement would take second fiddle to bigger issues like selling cars. But, what they  didn't realise is that the fishing issue is a perfect battle ground for the UK to make a stand as it has a legal right to the coastal fisheries and the EU cannot do anything about it. Boris is playing a blinder by keeping to the mantra that the UK will decide who fishes where and that they will not accept EU regulations. The EU's talk of a level playing field is nonsense. There is nothing level about minimum wages, entitled sick pay, working hours, pensions and health care across the EU so that argument is a red herring (sorry again ?) to get the UK to accept their rules so they can control its trade agreements.

Meanwhile the Dutch PM has just told Brussels that they will not pay any more into the EU budget to compensate for the UK's missing payments and on the other side of the coin a group of net receivers of EU subsidies and grants have argued that they shouldn't take less after Brexit.

THIS is exactly what Theresa May should have done three years ago. Stand firm and let the 27 countries of the EU, all with different priorities, argue the toss amongst themselves. And then by making clear that the UK is prepared to leave without a deal, they will get a deal, and it will be no worse than they already had.

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Correct. Of those nine countries some receive more back in trade within the EU than they  put in.  When they hand the dosh over to Brussels and Brussels then divvies it out to the poorer EU count

If you want to see hatred look at the political left. From antifa to momentum to unite against hate.  We arnt full of hate we are just pissed off.  Being against giving power to the eu isn't

What the latest news has demonstrated is that May's policy of appeasement to the EU was similar to Chamberlain's appeasement towards Hitler in the 1930's. By standing up to the EU and removing any hop

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Ultimately someone ain't going to get what they want.  Can't have cake and eat it. That's what they want, so someone is going to go without. The countries that are left have gotten used to big hand outs at our expense and they will have the hand out habit. Some are going into a cold place one way or another.  I'm sure that behind the scenes there are discussions going on with third party non European vehicle manufacturers from places such as Korea.  These delegations may well be well announced so that companies like Renault, fiat, seat, volkswagen and all the others get the worries about loosing massive market share because of being priced out of the market by import taxes. I'm sure that if Nissan want to build a new assembly plant in this country that Boris will assist as much as possible and the gov will slip them a bit of benefit.  More employment, more taxes, more companies  in the supply chain,  More of everything.

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2 hours ago, Balaur said:

I think we'rere going to see a hard brexit tbh, I don't think negotiation is possible , hopefully they can come up with a fairly rapid trade deal. 

I think your right mate the EU are between a rock and a hard place. The can't give us a good deal because so many other countries are watching, they had got to be seen to punish us for having the neck to leave. It will be no deal in the end or a deal at the last moment, they will cut their nose of to spite their face and it will hurt them more than us. IMO if we play hard ball and stand our ground we will do well in the long run. If we accept the first deal they offer just because its a deal we are down the pan and they have use over a barrel. I believe actually we are the ones holding the trump cards not them. It just needs bottle like a game of poker to stand are ground and face them down.

Cheers Arry

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3 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

What we've been told for decades is dwindling fish stocks. Iceland halted and then reversed it by closing their waters off to anyone other than Icelanders. As Britain is basically an island sat atop a massive fishery I don't see how they couldn't follow a similar path and reinvigorate a dying industry.

As much as I hope and wish for this it isn't that simple. 

Our fishermen sold alot of their quota to foreign interests and took pay offs to scrap their boats. I'd think there would be legal implications in selling something then taking it back. 

Secondly we don't have the boats to catch this fish. 

Thirdly the biggest part of our current catch is shellfish and the vast majority is sold to Europe. 80% of cornish crab and lobster goes to Europe. Who in the UK wants to eat whelks, cuttlefish or even Scottish longoustine? The cuttle alone is worth millions. Numerous fishing communities in Scotland that send top quality longoustines and lobster abroad would be done for if that market went. 

It's OK saying we can take our own fish back but are we going to destroy what's left off our fishing industry for the dream of building another. 

I support sustainable fisheries and I want us to grow our fishing industry into something an island nation can be proud of.....but its not as simple as it always seems 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, DIDO.1 said:

As much as I hope and wish for this it isn't that simple. 

Our fishermen sold alot of their quota to foreign interests and took pay offs to scrap their boats. I'd think there would be legal implications in selling something then taking it back. 

Secondly we don't have the boats to catch this fish. 

Thirdly the biggest part of our current catch is shellfish and the vast majority is sold to Europe. 80% of cornish crab and lobster goes to Europe. Who in the UK wants to eat whelks, cuttlefish or even Scottish longoustine? The cuttle alone is worth millions. Numerous fishing communities in Scotland that send top quality longoustines and lobster abroad would be done for if that market went. 

It's OK saying we can take our own fish back but are we going to destroy what's left off our fishing industry for the dream of building another. 

I support sustainable fisheries and I want us to grow our fishing industry into something an island nation can be proud of.....but its not as simple as it always seems 

 

 

 

That demand for are fish by the EU will not IMO dry up the restaurants will still demand our fish mate. It may get blocked or hindered for a while but long term people will find a way to trade.

As for the pay offs well we are going to pay 40 billion for the compensation towards assets, so they can take it out of that.

I think we probably do have the boats, what we don't have is the quotas and fisher would invest in boats if there is a future. The bloody EU payed our fishermen to decommission their boats, fishermen  here cried as their boats where mashed up by diggers as the took the buck.the quotas where so small many others went to the wall. Many got smaller boats to catch prime line caught fish but this came with it's own risks trying to get out in rough seas. We have to stand up take our fisheries back and if they want our fish they can buy it off us.

Also if for some reason we don't have enough boats the there just might be a few for sale in the EU. The fishermen might even buy back some of the boats that where sold to the EU buy our fishermen. 

Cheers Arry

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12 minutes ago, Arry said:

That demand for are fish by the EU will not IMO dry up the restaurants will still demand our fish mate. It may get blocked or hindered for a while but long term people will find a way to trade.

As for the pay offs well we are going to pay 40 billion for the compensation towards assets, so they can take it out of that.

I think we probably do have the boats, what we don't have is the quotas and fisher would invest in boats if there is a future. The bloody EU payed our fishermen to decommission their boats, fishermen  here cried as their boats where mashed up by diggers as the took the buck.the quotas where so small many others went to the wall. Many got smaller boats to catch prime line caught fish but this came with it's own risks trying to get out in rough seas. We have to stand up take our fisheries back and if they want our fish they can buy it off us.

Also if for some reason we don't have enough boats the there just might be a few for sale in the EU. The fishermen might even buy back some of the boats that where sold to the EU buy our fishermen. 

Cheers Arry

Exactamont Arry. It was EU quotas and management of those quotas that caused the decline of the British fleet. The Brits have spare capacity as they are only allowed to fish for a certain tonnage of each species and that means days tied up at dock sides. The UK fishermen can take up some of the slack created by the UK reducing the quotas of foreign boats. That gives them more income so when Wee Jimmy tries to take Scotland out of the UK and into the EU Scottish fishermen will not let her as they would again be governed by strict EU quotas.

The market for fish and shellfish in Spain, Portugal and France is immense and won't go away just because of Brexit. Meanwhile that fish and shellfish has to be delivered quickly and so the EU needs those deliveries to get through without delays. Every lorry that leaves Spain and France loaded with fresh fruit and veg' returns with UK sea food. The round trip is calculated to the minute and they aren't going to let valuable and perishable cargoes sit on the dock side until they get Customs clearance. A 2 hour delay is 2 hours off the driver's allowance. That could mean an extra few hours off the road for rest breaks. A 10 day round trip could take 11 days and that means they need more lorries to deliver the same cargoes.

It all adds up.

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I agree with you both. But it's a gamble. Yes a gamble I hope we take. BUT it's a gamble with people's livelihoods. We are a sea faring island nation but we don't eat seafood. Really we don't. We eat cod. That's about it. 

We need a long term plan for our fisheries and numerous governments over that time to stick to a long term aim.....thats what I fear we won't have. We can't just say 'take our fish back'. We can't catch it and we don't eat it. 

Again I agree with you two....but it really ain't that simple 

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16 minutes ago, DIDO.1 said:

I agree with you both. But it's a gamble. Yes a gamble I hope we take. BUT it's a gamble with people's livelihoods. We are a sea faring island nation but we don't eat seafood. Really we don't. We eat cod. That's about it. 

We need a long term plan for our fisheries and numerous governments over that time to stick to a long term aim.....thats what I fear we won't have. We can't just say 'take our fish back'. We can't catch it and we don't eat it. 

Again I agree with you two....but it really ain't that simple 

Then there needs to be a hand in hand campaign to get the country eating some of this world class produce rather than aiding the spread of paki chicken shops selling absolute filth that is  killing us.

We export nearly all out spider crabs because they love them in France......they are still going to love spider crab and we will still want to sell but maybe we should be trying to drive that market at home along with everything else.

Just an idea 

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12 minutes ago, WILF said:

Then there needs to be a hand in hand campaign to get the country eating some of this world class produce rather than aiding the spread of paki chicken shops selling absolute filth that is  killing us.

We export nearly all out spider crabs because they love them in France......they are still going to love spider crab and we will still want to sell but maybe we should be trying to drive that market at home along with everything else.

Just an idea 

This goes for all real food. School children should be taken to butchers, grocer's and fish markets and shown real fool and how to cook it. 

Like you say we eat chicken out of paki shops and believe that's a good cheap way to eat. It's not, it's an expensive way to eat, it's low welfare, unhealthy shite. Let's teach people to once again buy a proper chicken, roast it, make a dinner, sandwiches for next day, strip the carcass for a pie and boil the left overs for a stock. How many of those who 'can't afford to eat' could actually cook a raw chicken and utilise it like our grandmas did? 

Get kids in fish markets and show em how to really eat.... 

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7 minutes ago, DIDO.1 said:

This goes for all real food. School children should be taken to butchers, grocer's and fish markets and shown real fool and how to cook it. 

Like you say we eat chicken out of paki shops and believe that's a good cheap way to eat. It's not, it's an expensive way to eat, it's low welfare, unhealthy shite. Let's teach people to once again buy a proper chicken, roast it, make a dinner, sandwiches for next day, strip the carcass for a pie and boil the left overs for a stock. How many of those who 'can't afford to eat' could actually cook a raw chicken and utilise it like our grandmas did? 

Get kids in fish markets and show em how to really eat.... 

Exactly this mate, well said 

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21 minutes ago, Balaur said:

As long as we still export the whelks....

We don’t have any imagination when it comes to the humble whelk mate......whatever you can do with squid you can do with whelks.

Again, we should be teaching this stuff in school as Dido says.

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The way I see in about 80% of restaurants down in the South West have Sea Bass on the menu also Sea Bream (Giltheads) these are all from the Mediterranean this time of the year even in the summer. Bass and Bream are always on the slab in super markets all from the EU. They want to sell us their fish it's a big market. If the EU cut their nose off which I think they will I don't think it will last long when all the veg growers and fish suppliers start to screaming. While we will buy more veg from Africa, Egypt and Israel its not them that hold all the cards.

Most Cod is imported from Norway and Iceland while perfectly good Cod is thrown back to rot on the sea bed down here when caught as a by catch because EU quota have been reached.

If they want our fish, fine they will just have to buy it or we licence EU boats. Either way we control our waters and reap the benefits. I just hope the Government don't sell us out.

Also keep it quiet about the Spider Crab Wilf or the price will go up Lol. Joking aside if you like crab then Spider Crab are really good more white meat than the Brown Crab I love them.

Cheers Arry

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1 hour ago, WILF said:

Then there needs to be a hand in hand campaign to get the country eating some of this world class produce rather than aiding the spread of paki chicken shops selling absolute filth that is  killing us.

We export nearly all out spider crabs because they love them in France......they are still going to love spider crab and we will still want to sell but maybe we should be trying to drive that market at home along with everything else.

Just an idea 

You would be amazed at the fresh fish and shellfish that even the shittiest supermarkets stock here. Scallops, crab etc. Large crab claws - 70€ a kilo. At Christmas time, it's all about the fish and shellfish, Octopus, cuttle fish and squid a lot of which is labelled as north sea caught. Spider crab legs 100€ a kilo. Millions of euros spent everyday on sea produce and that's just in Catalunya.

I never ate anywhere near as much seafood in Blighty, as I do here and I love it (especially whelks Joe lol). If our fishermen can get back their industry, there is no way that Europe isn't buying it. 

@WILF Damn right we should be eating more instead of crappy chicken and kebabs. Boils my piss when my eldest turns her nose up at a seafood platter, yet will happily chow down a fuucking mixed donner.

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11 hours ago, DIDO.1 said:

I agree with you both. But it's a gamble. Yes a gamble I hope we take. BUT it's a gamble with people's livelihoods. We are a sea faring island nation but we don't eat seafood. Really we don't. We eat cod. That's about it. 

We need a long term plan for our fisheries and numerous governments over that time to stick to a long term aim.....thats what I fear we won't have. We can't just say 'take our fish back'. We can't catch it and we don't eat it. 

Again I agree with you two....but it really ain't that simple 

Yes, it is that simple. The UK catches fish but doesn't eat it. The EU eats loads of fish but doesn't have the fisheries.

The UK eats a lot of fruit and veg' but can't grow it. The French and Spanish can grow it and have enough to export to the UK.

A lot of the UK caught fish is delivered to the French and Spanish markets by the same lorries that bring the fruit and veg' to the UK.

British boats are not working to their full potential because of EU imposed quotas that allow foreign boats to fish UK waters.

Nothing will change except the UK boats will have bigger quotas at the expense of foreign boats. And the EU will not be able to manage fish stocks in UK waters. They will still bring their fruit and veg' from France and Spain and then return full of British caught sea food. The losers will be foreign boats who will have to manage on smaller quotas from British waters.

 

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