dogmandont 9,313 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, sandymere said: “Brexit is a tangible manifestation of the enduring power of idealised versions of history to lead otherwise well-meaning and right-thinking people astray,” “They marched to the polls in their millions blissfully unaware that they had been thoroughly short-changed by an inadequate education system that helped to sell them the tantalising prospect of reviving an era that never existed.” https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/as-the-spectre-of-facism-threatens-europe-once-again-learning-history-is-essential-4363912-Jan2019/ Now leavers are all uneducated fools basically. The European utopia is a myth that’s destined to fail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tatsblisters 7,915 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Just now, sandymere said: “Brexit is a tangible manifestation of the enduring power of idealised versions of history to lead otherwise well-meaning and right-thinking people astray,” “They marched to the polls in their millions blissfully unaware that they had been thoroughly short-changed by an inadequate education system that helped to sell them the tantalising prospect of reviving an era that never existed.” https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/as-the-spectre-of-facism-threatens-europe-once-again-learning-history-is-essential-4363912-Jan2019/ You want to try living in Page Hall in Sheffield or Eastwood in Rotherham for a wile and tell the people who have lived their for years who have had to move due to the influx of the Roma from Slovkia that's turned their working class community's into hell on earths they were blissfully unaware what they were voting for. 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, sandymere said: Its not in the vote its in the attitude to others opinions ie i'm labeled a "traitor" because i wish to remain in Europe, but I do so because i feel it is in the best interests of this country as well as Europe as a whole and indeed the world. We have strong Europe to stand up to Russia, china and the USA plus a long period of relative peace in Europe itself, we have great trade deals across the world through our membership, much better than we would likely be able to negotiate as an individual country ( we have not been so got a negotiating recently lol), we have a vote in Europe so have a say in its actions etc etc. Is these the wishes of a traitor ? Personally I haven't called you anything mate, as said everyone has different view points on this and I don't believe you're a traitor we just share different views... Leaving the EU does not mean we leave Europe, it's Geographically impossible lol... you are right that negotiations have been shambolic to say the least, but I don't think it helps when the divide is so fierce and as a nation we cannot pull together politically or with in society to ensure the best outcome... As long as one side shouts traitors and the other shouts fascist we are weak.... 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, NEWKID said: There were far more reasons to vote leave than immigration....but hey that's the one we're all pinned with...it suits the argument I suppose..... Wait there no it doesn't...even if your only reason was because you have seen your town completely transformed by unvetted immigration and your only way to make a stand, have a voice was putting a cross in the leave box....that doesn't make you fascist or rascist ffs..... It was the main reason I voted. I'm sick to the back teeth of our small country being flooded by undesirable and unwanted dregs of the earth because someone in Brussels says we have to.. So pin whatever able you want on me. Doesn't make my vote count any more or any less, and I couldn't give any less of a shit what someone calls me. Racist..meh! Fascist..meh! Won the referendum - Yeah! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arry 18,518 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, sandymere said: “Brexit is a tangible manifestation of the enduring power of idealised versions of history to lead otherwise well-meaning and right-thinking people astray,” “They marched to the polls in their millions blissfully unaware that they had been thoroughly short-changed by an inadequate education system that helped to sell them the tantalising prospect of reviving an era that never existed.” https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/as-the-spectre-of-facism-threatens-europe-once-again-learning-history-is-essential-4363912-Jan2019/ What a load of bollocks. The arrogance of that view. Better take the vote from ordinary folk then, their too thick to vote, go back the the aristocracy running the country and tipping our cap to the gentry. You're a Traitor if you go against the will of the people and the will of the country, and that's exactly what most MP's and the petition is doing. So yes anybody that schemes to turn the result of the referendum around is a Traitor. Surely if you live in a democracy you have a vote then the losing side should except it. Ffs that the whole point of democracy. Cheers Arry Edited March 22, 2019 by Arry 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, sandymere said: “Brexit is a tangible manifestation of the enduring power of idealised versions of history to lead otherwise well-meaning and right-thinking people astray,” “They marched to the polls in their millions blissfully unaware that they had been thoroughly short-changed by an inadequate education system that helped to sell them the tantalising prospect of reviving an era that never existed.” https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/as-the-spectre-of-facism-threatens-europe-once-again-learning-history-is-essential-4363912-Jan2019/ Quotes like that piss me off to be honest... Im pretty sure amongst 17.5m people there were some real bright sparks...I may not be university educated but I'm far from stupid.... 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, walshie said: It was the main reason I voted. I'm sick to the back teeth of our small country being flooded by undesirable and unwanted dregs of the earth because someone in Brussels says we have to.. So pin whatever able you want on me. Doesn't make my vote count any more or any less, and I couldn't give any less of a shit what someone calls me. Racist..meh! Fascist..meh! Won the referendum - Yeah! Not pinning anything on you Dave...as said there were lots of reasons 1 being immigration, but the only 1 remainers want to pin on leavers is immigration because it suits the rascist argument and gives some sort of moral high ground... Although as I said, if unvetted immigration is your sole reason that still doesn't make you a fascist or rascist..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, tatsblisters said: You want to try living in Page Hall in Sheffield or Eastwood in Rotherham for a wile and tell the people who have lived their for years who have had to move due to the influx of the Roma from Slovkia that's turned their working class community's into hell on earths they were blissfully unaware what they were voting for. Said it loads mate, we're still in a bit of a bubble living in my neck of the woods, but if you've travelled around a bit your eyes don't lie.... Controlled immigration is a great thing for any country mass unvetted immigration is a recipe for disaster Edited March 22, 2019 by NEWKID 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,664 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Controlled immigration is a great thing for any country mass unvetted immigration is a recipe for disaster why is controlled immigration a great thing for any country ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tandors 888 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 If any skills are in short supply surely that is the host countries problem for not educating its indigenous population properly, as opposed to bringing in potentially skilled workers from abroad such as Africa which in reality is detrimental to their country's of origin. If we benefit, they lose with the brain drain, making their poverty worse and relying on foreign aid instead of their brightest helping raise their standard of living. 10 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 33 minutes ago, king said: why is controlled immigration a great thing for any country ? Because people should be able to move to other countries and offer their services for the good of that country, not only foreign people here but Englishman working and contributing abroad.... countries can prosper from this both financially and educationally.... I really don't believe everyone should only live and work in their country of origin, that's too much of a blinkered view for me 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 26,094 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 f**k me my family wouldn't be here if there was no immigration and I believe we've contributed a fair bit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 54 minutes ago, NEWKID said: Not pinning anything on you Dave...as said there were lots of reasons 1 being immigration, but the only 1 remainers want to pin on leavers is immigration because it suits the rascist argument and gives some sort of moral high ground... Although as I said, if unvetted immigration is your sole reason that still doesn't make you a fascist or rascist..... My post wasn't aimed at you at all Kev. I was just using your post to highlight how the remainers think name-calling and labelling is a reasonable way to make their argument. I was hoping to make the point that they can't tell us WHY we voted as we did, and even if they could, tough titty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,183 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, sandymere said: Its not in the vote its in the attitude to others opinions ie i'm labeled a "traitor" because i wish to remain in Europe, but I do so because i feel it is in the best interests of this country as well as Europe as a whole and indeed the world. We have strong Europe to stand up to Russia, china and the USA plus a long period of relative peace in Europe itself, we have great trade deals across the world through our membership, much better than we would likely be able to negotiate as an individual country ( we have not been so got a negotiating recently lol), we have a vote in Europe so have a say in its actions etc etc. Is these the wishes of a traitor ? As far as I know, you are on the left of the political spectrum......taking the moral high ground about getting called names because of your personal convictions is a bit rich coming from you isn’t it? Your political ideology has been using name calling and slurs to over power debate and vilify people for the last 25 years.....or did you conveniently forget that bit? Lol anyway, Homophobe ! Lol 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, NEWKID said: Quotes like that piss me off to be honest... Im pretty sure amongst 17.5m people there were some real bright sparks...I may not be university educated but I'm far from stupid.... F*ck*ng annoying isn't it! Not wanting to be governed by unelected bureaucrats is now racist/fascist. 51 minutes ago, tandors said: If any skills are in short supply surely that is the host countries problem for not educating its indigenous population properly, as opposed to bringing in potentially skilled workers from abroad such as Africa which in reality is detrimental to their country's of origin. If we benefit, they lose with the brain drain, making their poverty worse and relying on foreign aid instead of their brightest helping raise their standard of living. That works the opposite too. Many skilled people are leaving Britain because it's simply too expensive to live there. That vacuum is filled by foreign workers who see it as the land of milk and honey. This in turn leaves a vacuum in their countries that stunts their nation's growth, as you've pointed out. Their country's condition worsens so many see a drop in standards and in turn migrate for a better chance somewhere else... See where this goes 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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