Vitamins and minerals

[Big Ron 1,138]

1 hour ago, Black neck said:

Just out interest Ron how big do you need to be before you can put big in front of your name

it may be nothing to do with weight or height ,i may be mr big in other things 

[Big Ron 1,138]

23 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

It’s not size it’s more a weight thing....

You may be right after 17 pints of the special apple last night 

Any Cornish on here ? I hear Cornish Rattler is a nice pint and turns you into King,Socks Ginger and Bill after 5/6 ? lol

Edited August 26, 2018 by Big Ron

[Saltmoon 2,208]

2 minutes ago, Big Ron said:

You may be right after 17 pints of the special apple last night 

17 pints........ I had 6 last night and woke up feeling like I've done 10 rounds with Tyson 

[Black neck 15,161]

5 minutes ago, Big Ron said:

it may be nothing to do with weight or height ,i may be mr big in other things 

Say no more me old mate

Say no more

 

[Big Ron 1,138]

1 minute ago, Saltmoon said:

17 pints........ I had 6 last night and woke up feeling like I've done 10 rounds with Tyson 

hence the name big Ron  you dont want to come to near my rear today thou 

[Black neck 15,161]

1 minute ago, Saltmoon said:

17 pints........ I had 6 last night and woke up feeling like I've done 10 rounds with Tyson 

Done 10 rounds wi yesen ty

You must a bin wankerd

[Skinny Whip 4]

On 21/08/2018 at 18:03, downsouth said:

Even if you are running in comps you still dont need all that stuff.You can cause dogs to run hot and do all sorts of problems overdoing it with extra vitamins and minerals.If you feed good quality meat,veg,fat and a source of carbs everything you need is there.

What do you use for carbs? My 4 month pup is on raw meat. Put spinach and carrot in there. Bit of apple now and then. What for carbs? 

[sandymere 8,260]

12 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

Great input, we're all the more wiser now. You even got a thumbs up! Lol

You can depend on me to speak the plain honest truth. I call stupid stupid.

[sandymere 8,260]

22 minutes ago, Skinny Whip said:

What do you use for carbs? My 4 month pup is on raw meat. Put spinach and carrot in there. Bit of apple now and then. What for carbs? 

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

It's pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So 85% of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
.
The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considerin

[Saltmoon 2,208]

1 hour ago, Black neck said:

Done 10 rounds wi yesen ty

You must a bin wankerd

Trouble with fighting yourself it gets very confusing ....... Do I win or lose or both? 

[dogmandont 9,312]

3 minutes ago, sandymere said:

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

It's pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So 85% of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
.
The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considerin

Did you even read the lads question before you started that no it all rant????

[dogmandont 9,312]

32 minutes ago, Skinny Whip said:

What do you use for carbs? My 4 month pup is on raw meat. Put spinach and carrot in there. Bit of apple now and then. What for carbs? 

If your feeding a decent variety of raw your pup will do just fine.

[trigger2 3,100]

37 minutes ago, Saltmoon said:

Trouble with fighting yourself it gets very confusing ....... Do I win or lose or both? 

Don’t beat yourself up about it

[Saltmoon 2,208]

10 minutes ago, trigger2 said:

Don’t beat yourself up about it

Always one  

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

1 hour ago, sandymere said:

You can depend on me to speak the plain honest truth. I call stupid stupid.

Honesty is always good 

Do you think you can expand on that though and actually explain your thoughts on the topic or are we asking too much?