6x24 scope on 17HMR?

[Longshanx 833]

On 18/08/2018 at 09:34, Meece said:

It's a sight. It's an aiming device. As Long as you can see the target, put the bead on it and be guaranteed  to hit the target consistantly that's it. Pound for Pound a fìxed power is much   better  because the glass is better and there isnt the mechanical internals. Until the optical quality of a top scope is seen in comparison to a cheap variable scope, the difference isn't known.  We had a bloke with a variable come out with us night shooting.  there were wheels and dials ànd things everywhere on this scope. Every shot took ages zooming and dialling stuff in. There was one shot that it took so long that the fox ran right in to the squeek up to the vehicle. He then said "I  can't see it " (   by this time the fox then asked if it could have a look down the scope to see the fox ) we tried to give the bloke the shot but we just drew the 12 and gave it a barrel.  Get something like a 6 or 8 x42 Leupold or Similar. See it; gun up;  shoot it.  Its no different to blokes going round a clay shòot keèp changing  choke tubes every stand. they still miss, Just shoot.

I thinks it’s due to the fact that it’s what I’ve always been use to having. You do put a very good point across and totally see where you coming from. ( no pun intended )

[Alsone 789]

On 17/08/2018 at 21:05, Meece said:

 Thoughts please

Why are you thinking of putting this monstrosity on the gun? 24 x ?? What you shooting, fleas off of the back of a rat out in France? Get a fixed 6 or 8x power by 40.  Better glass, no internals to go wrong and the point of aim don't move every time you wind the power up and down.

24 power !

That's why it pays to buy a 1st focal plane scope. No shifting point of aim.

[Meece 1,957]

37 minutes ago, Alsone said:

That's why it pays to buy a 1st focal plane scope. No shifting point of aim.

Hallelujah, , come on down there brother. Spread the word. Fixed power.

I've got a reasonable zoom scope in the cupboard but it don't hold zero point of aim when the mag is changed. I also have one that does hold zero but it is a Zeiss which cost betwen, 7 to 800.  The mag is always set on 6 or 8   Fixed power are better because of the simpler construction and fewer lenses.

[Alsone 789]

A zoom will hold it's aim if it's 1st focal plane. The penalty is the cross hair becomes magnified as you zoom, and first focal planes scopes tend to be at the expensive end of the market. Most cheaper scopes are 2nd focal plane which stops the cross hair magnification, but the penalty is the point of aim shifts. This is where it pays to know what you're buying ie rather than simply buying X brand, buying on the basis of X Brand + 1st or 2nd focal plane, budget allowing and application in mind (on small targets the cross hair magnification might be an issue). With a fixed scope, the focal plane doesn't matter. With a zoom it's a different story as to which may be best.

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Alsone

[Deker 3,453]

45 minutes ago, Alsone said:

A zoom will hold it's aim if it's 1st focal plane. The penalty is the cross hair becomes magnified as you zoom, and first focal planes scopes tend to be at the expensive end of the market. Most cheaper scopes are 2nd focal plane which stops the cross hair magnification, but the penalty is the point of aim shifts. This is where it pays to know what you're buying ie rather than simply buying X brand, buying on the basis of X Brand + 1st or 2nd focal plane, budget allowing and application in mind (on small targets the cross hair magnification might be an issue). With a fixed scope, the focal plane doesn't matter. With a zoom it's a different story as to which may be best.

 

Any zoom will hold its point of aim unless its cheap and nasty or faulty, it doesn't need to be FFP.

[Stavross 13,714]

For what it’s worth I’d go 4 x 16, if you buy a quality scope you won’t have any bother loosing zero on mag, have a look at vortex optics, for me fixed mag are for on a range, the variable works better for me in the field as when you are pushing that shot out to a good distance you want to see a bit more of what you are shooting

[Longshanx 833]

1 hour ago, Stavross said:

For what it’s worth I’d go 4 x 16, if you buy a quality scope you won’t have any bother loosing zero on mag, have a look at vortex optics, for me fixed mag are for on a range, the variable works better for me in the field as when you are pushing that shot out to a good distance you want to see a bit more of what you are shooting

Priced up the MTC viper, comes in 3-18 as the 16 has been discontinued. 

I like the option to zoom in and out on what I’m actually shooting

[Longshanx 833]

Thanks for the input fellas.

This topic has certainly raised a debate on FFP or variable mag.

To me I think it’s just personal preference.

For me I think it’s stick to what you know and like, so it’s a variable mag.

I think x24 will be to much and will only use this on my 308. For the 17 it’s going to be a x16 or x18 mag.

Been great reading all your input and reasons why one is better than the other.

Happy hunting fellas what ever scope you use

 

 

[Deker 3,453]

On ‎18‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 14:42, Meece said:

Far More important to me than magnification  is full  lens clarìty. I find that so many cheaper scopes especially zoom ones  have a black ring /circle when you look through them. The whole point of a scope is as an optical instrument and if the vision through it isnt complete and Instant then the tool isnt as good as it could be. It is such a pain when you look through a scope and  the view is a small area with a blooming great black ring piece and you have to move the eye sideways òr forwards or backwards to get full view. Chuck it in the bin !! It's not until you look through a quality scope near dusk that the difference shows. The light transmission and clarity really show and you can tell the difference between a clump of grass or thistles and a rabbit. I remember watching a bloke that shot every thistle in a fìeld with a 22lr thinking they were rabbits. Buy once buy right.

This is what I like to see. A full clear image with no black ring.

Each to their own, I shoot in all sorts of environments at all sorts of quarry, and every one of my scopes is zoom.  They work for me and do the job.

I don't dispute the fact that money for money the fixed will probably have the edge, but I need the versatility a zoom gives me, and despite the fact mine are not all the finest quality money can buy, I have never had to refuse a shot because of the scope!

Zoom outsell fixed mag scopes by miles, and there is a much bigger choice as well, there is a reason for that!

ATB!

PS I don't like your reticle either, posts too big and no use for me in the field, but again that's down to the individual!

[David.evans 5,323]

Nice web page decker

[Alsone 789]

On 21/08/2018 at 09:17, Deker said:

Any zoom will hold its point of aim unless its cheap and nasty or faulty, it doesn't need to be FFP.

The crosshairs hold but the point of aim shifts requiring a different BDC according to the zoom magnification. With 1st focal plane, everything remains a constant just as with fixed power so single a BDC or holdover point for any range is all that's required.

[Deker 3,453]

3 minutes ago, Alsone said:

The crosshairs hold but the point of aim shifts requiring a different BDC according to the zoom magnification. With 1st focal plane, everything remains a constant just as with fixed power so single a BDC or holdover point for any range is all that's required.

You dial it in so no problem!    Didn't you get to that page in your book yet?

Alternatively use it at a set magnification, just like a fixed scope, no problems there either. 

If you want to adjust the magnification without dialing then you will have to adjust aim, but you still have the advantage of the same size reticle, unlike FFP where you have some log in the lens you have to look round to find the target.

[Alsone 789]

I'm not doubting you can dial it in, but it's much easier to have to just deal with BDC range adjustments rather than range + zoom BDC. Each to their own I suppose.

[walshie 2,804]

I have a special BDC on my scope. If the quarry is beyond my zero range, I aim a bit higher. If it isn't, I don't. Works every time. 

[Deker 3,453]

8 hours ago, Alsone said:

I'm not doubting you can dial it in, but it's much easier to have to just deal with BDC range adjustments rather than range + zoom BDC. Each to their own I suppose.

You made a statement...………… A zoom will hold it's aim if it's 1st focal plane.  implying a SFP scope doesn't, not true, it holds its aim point 100% if you just dial it in!   Its all very well regurgitating all the books you read but that isn't real life and very often isn't what its like in the field!

To deal with some of your subsequent comments.

It is well known FFP scopes reticles can obscure the target/quarry at high mag, so that doesn't make anything easier!  You don't need to dial, but can't see the target.....what use is that?    Fixed scopes have their uses, they also have restrictions.

Get a SFP zoom and shoot on 6 or 8 or whatever you want all the time, then you don't have any problems, you also have the benefit of a reticle that doesn't obscure the target and the option of zoom and dialing if you want, and aim adjustment should you so desire.

The quality of even cheap zoom scopes are remarkable these days, and good ones are exceptional.   Whatever difference there may be in quality of a fixed or zoom scope, at the top end of the financial scale its not worth talking about!    From a clarity point of view, you will have noticed in all the books you read, even top military shooters are moving over to zoom rather than fixed, and don't give a hoot about adjustments as they have their charts/computers in front of them for either FFP or SFP.  I would expect at the extreme distances you like to talk about the vast majority will also prefer SFP scopes so the reticle doesn't obscure the target.

If someone wants/likes a Fixed scope and/or FFP then great for them, their choice, but for anyone to slag off SFP zoom scopes as inadequate, complicated, milky, etc etc simply shows a woeful lack of experience/knowledge!

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Deker