walshie 2,804 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 Arguably the most commonly used cartridge for fox is the 223. There's a reason it's so popular. I can't understand people getting hung up on velocities. My preferred choice is a 53gr v-max at around 3100-3200 fps and it does everything I ask of it. Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, walshie said: Arguably the most commonly used cartridge for fox is the 223. There's a reason it's so popular. I can't understand people getting hung up on velocities. My preferred choice is a 53gr v-max at around 3100-3200 fps and it does everything I ask of it. Of my centrefires I would agree that the .223 comes out more than any of the others for fox. As I think many here know, I do a lot of garden foxes, and they are virtually exclusively rimfires, which are all slow in the great scheme of shooting, but work just fine! Edited July 3, 2018 by Deker 1 Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I'm really not trying to take this off topic but this was a .223 HP, and around 180 yards, but..the red mist on head contact was unreal...……………… Do you know what it is yet? Edited July 16, 2018 by Deker Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) This is what happens if you get out enough rather than reading books, it doesn't happen every day and it was a .243 V-Max, around 80-120 yards (my best recollection, it was a few years ago) ONE shot, absolutely destroyed! PS, not my shot but my shooting buddy that day (that's him in the pic) we were actually after the bunnies, don't ask, that's my HMR in the second pic. Edited July 4, 2018 by Deker Quote Link to post
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 19 hours ago, Underdog said: Yeah, that's why a slug from a 45/70 just bounces off stuff After seeing what a 600gr slug does to wild pig I'm curious what body armour is available to British wildlife. 1 1 Quote Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) On 03/07/2018 at 06:04, Underdog said: I am an Ackley fan but actually not an uber high velocity fan. It tests a bullets integrity to much on the way and on the target sometimes! I have seen many a shallow wound! Remember, the harder you hit something the harder the force coming back! And if a mouse farts under the passing super fast bullet it's game over! No give me something under 3000 anyday Yep, higher velocity = higher explosive but less penetration. Lower velocity = higher penetration but less explosive. However, with the 1st one, increasing bullet weight increase penetration so it's possible to compensate for the lower penetration by using a heavier bullet, albeit a heavy bullet is hard to drive fast. It also explains why .204 can be prone to splash at 32gr but not the heavier weights and the evolution of .22-250 into quite a popular round. This isn't a test in the field, but it does yield some interesting "lab" results that supports the above: I think you need to ask yourself where the best balance lies and how much penetration and explosiveness you actually need. There is something uniquely satisfying though to vaporising your prey if it's not required for eating which probably explains the popularity of .204 and .22-250, and in the older days, .220 swift. In fact Ackley used to reckon you could take down any game in North America with a swift. Not sure I'd want to test that against an aggressive grizzly though. Edited July 4, 2018 by Alsone Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, Alsone said: Yep, higher velocity = higher explosive but less penetration. Lower velocity = higher penetration but less explosive. However, with the 1st one, increasing bullet weight increase penetration so it's possible to compensate for the lower penetration by using a heavier bullet, albeit a heavy bullet is hard to drive fast. It also explains why .204 can be prone to splash at 32gr but not the heavier weights and the evolution of .22-250 into quite a popular round. -------------------------------- I think you need to ask yourself where the best balance lies and how much penetration and explosiveness you actually need. There is something uniquely satisfying though to vaporising your prey if it's not required for eating which probably explains the popularity of .204 and .22-250, and in the older days, .220 swift. In fact Ackley used to reckon you could take down any game in North America with a swift. Not sure I'd want to test that against an aggressive grizzly though. I think you will find the majority of shooters have already asked a lot of questions over the years and found what works for them. Mr Ackley and his theories have only ever led to very low level market penetration. What...………………………. explains the popularity of .204 and .22-250, and in the older days, .220 swift...…………... they are NOT popular and never have been, particularly the Swift which has only ever been a small niche market. The .204 and 22-250 without doubt have a market and are good at what they are good at, but they are NOT popular (big selling) calibres! Quote Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 When compared to the .223, no. But that's because the .223 has military associations (which attracts the associate with the army macho crowd), and it simply fits for most people. For those looking for a more specialized round, the above have proven popular choices. If you were to take a sample of the more specialized rounds, ie. 222, 222 magnum, 223 WSSM, hornet, etc (without listing all the obscure more or less gone to the wall rounds), the .22-250, is probably the most popular, with .220 swift being more popular in the older days and .204 gaining a more recent foothold. Quote Link to post
walshie 2,804 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 Why would you want a more specialised round? Is your quarry any deader with one of the niche calibres? If anyone ever asks me to come round and deal with their pesky water bottles, I know what cal to get. Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Alsone said: When compared to the .223, no. But that's because the .223 has military associations (which attracts the associate with the army macho crowd), and it simply fits for most people. For those looking for a more specialized round, the above have proven popular choices. If you were to take a sample of the more specialized rounds, ie. 222, 222 magnum, 223 WSSM, hornet, etc (without listing all the obscure more or less gone to the wall rounds), the .22-250, is probably the most popular, with .220 swift being more popular in the older days and .204 gaining a more recent foothold. Come on Alsone……………… You make some cracking assumptions..... But that's because the .223 has military associations (which attracts the associate with the army macho crowd) ! and it simply fits for most people ………….. because it does the job! The majority of people buy the calibre/ammunition that works for them, very few have the need to be that specialized! I take nothing away from those that have a specialized need, but lets not pretend they are popular! As regards your 22-250, you can buy ammo or load a .243 to give 22-250 performance, so why the need, the .243 is far more flexible! I think there are enough pictures on this thread to show the explosive nature of ammo without Mr Ackleys name on them, and we don't all go out to vaporize our quarry anyway! Edited July 4, 2018 by Deker 1 Quote Link to post
Underdog 2,337 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 I'll take a 222 anyday of the week. U. Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Underdog said: I'll take a 222 anyday of the week. U. Apparently a specialized round! That's news to me, it was, and still is pretty popular, and was an accepted deer round some years back! Edited July 4, 2018 by Deker Quote Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Deker said: Come on Alsone……………… You make some cracking assumptions..... But that's because the .223 has military associations (which attracts the associate with the army macho crowd) ! and it simply fits for most people ………….. because it does the job! The majority of people buy the calibre/ammunition that works for them, very few have the need to be that specialized! I take nothing away from those that have a specialized need, but lets not pretend they are popular! As regards your 22-250, you can buy ammo or load a .243 to give 22-250 performance, so why the need, the .243 is far more flexible! I think there are enough pictures on this thread to show the explosive nature of ammo without Mr Ackleys name on them, and we don't all go out to vaporize our quarry anyway! I don't disagree, I think the majority choose .223 because it's simply the go to round - easy to obtain, has adequate performance for most situations and yes, some people do like military calibres and style weapons especially on ranges. As for vaporised quarry, it does happen with other rounds, but not almost every shot as with the more specialised high velocity calibres. I guess ultimately it all comes down to what floats your boat. However as I've said before, there's a lot to be said for having a little extra killing power and some simply find vaporising vermin more entertaining. There's nothing wrong with a .243. As you say, very versatile round if a little expensive for some uses. Quote Link to post
David.evans 5,323 Posted July 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 Well reading these threads , it's a eye opener. im only a novice at with c/f , and I did ask a few people for advice , I can say that I was given good advice by those concerned im well happy with .223 , and the 55g v max , but then again that's all I know and have used and don't intend to change , because I don't need to , if I hit what I shoot at , it's dead , good enough for me Atb 2 Quote Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 10 hours ago, David.evans said: Well reading these threads , it's a eye opener. im only a novice at with c/f , and I did ask a few people for advice , I can say that I was given good advice by those concerned im well happy with .223 , and the 55g v max , but then again that's all I know and have used and don't intend to change , because I don't need to , if I hit what I shoot at , it's dead , good enough for me Atb Nothing wrong with the .223, its popular because it works and offers flexibility, that's why people buy it! 1 Quote Link to post
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