Wheeler type picture from past and present

[p3d 879]

40 minutes ago, Glyn..... said:

That is not where the bull was added that was border terriers, I don't think Brian took a pup out of Dw litter  I could be wrong, at that time he was trying to get away from bull blood , this doesn't mean he may not of used it a gen or so down the line, it was about 10 years latter Brian used a bull outcross

Glyn,

Why would BN not know the name of these Borders, if he thought highly enough of the Dogs to breed from them would he not know a lot about them. This was back in the 80's/90's, not the storneage. He could easily phone around and get the background or as he was going around the show circuit he could have asked lads about these Borders. Photographs would exist and their working history would be well known, where they hunt terriers from one of the famous hunts, where they owned by a man who could still be alive? Not exactly a long time ago (for a certain age group). BN was quoted that he bred away from his grandfathers fell terriers because they had bad coats for working the fell country. Why end up with a smooth coated strain?

[Glyn..... 5,199]

17 minutes ago, p3d said:

Glyn,

Why would BN not know the name of these Borders, if he thought highly enough of the Dogs to breed from them would he not know a lot about them. This was back in the 80's/90's, not the storneage. He could easily phone around and get the background or as he was going around the show circuit he could have asked lads about these Borders. Photographs would exist and their working history would be well known, where they hunt terriers from one of the famous hunts, where they owned by a man who could still be alive? Not exactly a long time ago (for a certain age group). BN was quoted that he bred away from his grandfathers fell terriers because they had bad coats for working the fell country. Why end up with a smooth coated strain?

I have never said he didn't know the breeding of these terriers , and was BN quoted or did some say it was a BN quote , Brian sell surplus stock and always has others didn't and are/where very secretive about there breeding Brian may of been allowed to use a dog so long as he kept  the breeding to himself, so gaps in his peds  

Edited June 18, 2018 by Glyn.....

[Kerny92 1,246]

Brian might have known but that doesn't mean he let on the whole truth, lets not forget he was a business man as well as a dog man.

[Glyn..... 5,199]

1 hour ago, dillydog said:

And then ask the question "did it help in any way" ?

one man who posts on here has some and is happy with the way they work , i tried some gould stuff with bull in the breeding when i was at the south it was ok for hunt days but i'd of had to of kept 30 of them to do a season 

[gnipper 5,945]

I thought it was common knowledge he used borders off a well known strain local to him?

[downsouth 6,818]

How has a thread about Wheeler bred dogs turned into Nuttal using Borders?

[p3d 879]

45 minutes ago, downsouth said:

How has a thread about Wheeler bred dogs turned into Nuttal using Borders?

It was a question relating to a post showing a Wheeler bitch? (Tess)  that someone said was bred to a BN dog.

But work away with the Wheeler post, the question will come up again 

[p3d 879]

2 hours ago, Glyn..... said:

I have never said he didn't know the breeding of these terriers , and was BN quoted or did some say it was a BN quote , Brian sell surplus stock and always has others didn't and are/where very secretive about there breeding Brian may of been allowed to use a dog so long as he kept  the breeding to himself, so gaps in his peds  

Glyn,

Thank you for the reply, Then he may have known the breeding but decided or was asked to keep it to himself. Strange way to operate when he was writing out pedigrees to pass on with the pups BUT each to their own. As for the quote, The man could put the record straight about that in seconds. He has been interviewed multiple times since that quote was used. As I said in the previous post, it was not 100 years ago, the man is here now.

Thanks anyway, better let the post get back to talking about Wheeler dogs.

[downsouth 6,818]

10 minutes ago, p3d said:

It was a question relating to a post showing a Wheeler bitch? (Tess)  that someone said was bred to a BN dog.

But work away with the Wheeler post, the question will come up again 

Well for the record Tess wasnt a wheeler bitch she was just a stafford given to Derek to breed from.She wasnt bred to any of BN's dogs but was bred to a dog of his breeding and BN never ended up with anything directly out of her to mix back in with his dogs but I know for a fact that he has used a dog with a little bit of wheeler blood a lot more recently.

[Kerny92 1,246]

11 minutes ago, downsouth said:

Well for the record Tess wasnt a wheeler bitch she was just a stafford given to Derek to breed from.She wasnt bred to any of BN's dogs but was bred to a dog of his breeding and BN never ended up with anything directly out of her to mix back in with his dogs but I know for a fact that he has used a dog with a little bit of wheeler blood a lot more recently.

It's well known he used to buy them back in off other lads, I'm sure if they were the right dogs he wouldn't mind if outside blood was introduced.

[p3d 879]

14 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Phone him an ask him??

Seeing as you think of yourself as a bit of an expert, I am asking you.

Did BN say it?

If you don'y know that is fine, let the post continue talking about Wheeler dogs.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Im' not slating anyone here and he probably had reasons for it but I know for a fact Nuttall has given out several different peds for the same litter and I wouldnt believe anything written by the man .This is through no sourness or anything on my part as i have his dogs in my breeding just the truth .

Some of the wheeler dates don't add up either from what I've personally got written down on the day it happened but I'll not force that issue because DW is equally as unreliable from experience. Contrary to hearsay I believe these men never wrote down early mating and dealings ,at least that' what I have come to believe having been lead a merry dance by both .Not maliciously mind just through no backup paperwork. 

After alls' said and done I'm indebted to both men for producing what has given me a cracking life with terriers but so glad I did it my way .

[chesney 5,319]

At least this day and age DNA will prove alot if the breeders have nothing ta hide. Theres alot ta be said for been honest but always seems the honest lads get caught out with the shite.  

[foxdropper 17,092]

Better to be honest mate .The shite dont matter and is irrelevant .What you see with your own  eyes is the only reliable thing in this game ,sad but true .

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

some strong looking bullterriers on this thread fellas ive seen a few wheeler and nuttall types and they defo look like minature staffs