MORE BAD NEWS......

[dytkos 17,528]

23 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

Wasn’t badger bItingbanned due to the rowdy crowds it attracted rather than the act themselves 

and as for the criticism of the lads , well in my view how they acted was absolutely standard in the lads who dig . 

If your quiet, keep yourself to yourself and dint act like an idiot , be that in the digging world , coursing or bull x scene, your the minority 

You must have been out with some fooking Muppets then!

As far as licensing goes, how many people convicted of gun crime hold a licence?

Cheers, D.

[Barrie 1,325]

2 hours ago, Apache... said:

No offence taken Barrie, I won't disect your post because I don't feel the need to highlight points we might disagree on. If I come across as someone who is against this committee or that club or this federation (I forget how many there is, sorry) I'm not and you can only do so much, but I think it's inevitable we are where we are today. All the marches and paperwork can only do so much maybe if the right foundations were put in a long time ago hunting may not be where it is today. I'd like to know if the country's you have visited to hunt had a licenseing system in place  l would be surprised if they didn't, atb.

Hi Apache

Thank you for your understanding, I'm sure there's far more on which we'd agree than we could ever disagree .

Most definitely, you're correct. Apart from the UK, every other country where I've hunted and several others which I've visited have all had some form of licensing/regulatory system in place. And as a visiting outsider I never saw anything which led me to believe they had any less freedom to practice than we did here in the UK, in fact quite the reverse.

In some countries, the mere fact that the relevant Hunting Associations have detailed sets of rule books outlining the correct way to do things seems to serve as an incentive for practitioners to "do it right" and it certainly seems to work. I know for a fact that here in the UK the NWTF Code of Conduct for Terrierwork has served us all well, by enabling the public and politicians to differentiate between responsibly conducted terrierwork and acts of cruelty involving dogs. There is no doubt in my mind that it has been our saving grace to date and that without it terrierwork would long since have disappeared.

I was particularly struck with Germany, where to be classed as "A Hunter" seemed to be regarded almost like a badge of honour. It was heart warming to drive past houses which displayed large plaques on their walls of boars, badgers, various types of deer, pheasants etc indicating exactly what the householder hunted.

I also agree with your comment that "if the right foundations were put in a long time ago hunting may not be where it is today" and I've witnessed first hand a definite reluctance in some quarters to move with the times. Personally I believe that had all the various Hunting Associations produced Codes of Conduct which would stand up to public scrutiny, rather than simply attempt pay lip service, we would be in a much healthier position than we are today.

To me the other noticeable difference between the UK and other countries seems to be (as far as I'm aware), elsewhere it seems to be "practitioner groups" (those who hunt) who have the maximum influence on the right and wrong way to do things, whereas here in the UK it is those who seek to ban things who have far too much say on the matter. And that does concern me a great deal.

Don't get me wrong, given a choice (or even the risk) between a ban on terrwork and some form of licensing regime, I would grab at the latter with both hands. But given the unpredictability of politicians, the manner in which our Parliamentary system works and the undeserved influence of organisations such as the RSPCA, it is something I personally would approach with extreme caution.  

J.M.H.O.

Kindest Regards - Barrie

Edited May 28, 2018 by Barrie

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,553]

24 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

That statement is way out of line and something that the anti's would say. That is not how most lads go about the job at all.

Be careful where those stones land mate....it’s a small world

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

You've lost me.

[Corkman 944]

3 hours ago, MickC said:

What licensing would do is store every Terriermans details away somewhere which is info that will eventually make its way into the wrong hands. This info apart from letting potentialy everybody know who keeps terriers,there would also be addresses stored which would create havoc if this info did get leaked .

Did you ever here of data protection laws? Wouldn't be a fan of going the license route "just yet" and would imagine a bit off, but a small minority of idiots  are not the backbone of law abiding Terriermen. That's like comparing soccer hooligans to every day soccer supporters. Should they ban soccer too because of a few hooligans?  

Edited May 28, 2018 by Corkman

[Kerny92 1,246]

1 hour ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

That bloke died not long after that 

 

Shame that.

[Corkman 944]

14 hours ago, Apache... said:

I think we have agree to disagree lads but I know if I got a knock on the door right now and was asked to get a license to dig to my terriers I would fly down and get one and if I got caught digging without one I'd get my van and dogs confiscated my house raided and a prison sentence, f**k me it's a no brainier. And let me tell you fellas is not a nice experience enough said .

Hard to comprehend some of the statements and beliefs of people on here at times? Barrie's response explained quite  adequately the huge effort that the NWTF and indeed Barrie and others have put in to keeping "your" pastime legal and that's a fact. Doing nothing and hiding your head in the sand achieves "nothing". The amount of hours and commitment is to be commended, where thanks is rarely given and never sought. The fact this work is not broadcast on the WWW doesn't mean nothing is being done or the many achievements made over the many years. If it was not for men like Barrie standing up for the likes of "you" then it would be a very one sided conversation and things would have drastically changed years ago. The balance that the NWTF puts to such arguments and political decisions is and has been the very reason "you" can still practice terrierwork legally. 

Ask yourself what have "you" personally done to protect "your" pastime? Are you a paid up member of the NWTF? I doubt it along with many others on here! If you paid up the few quid and bothered to attend a meeting you might just find yourself being actually well informed and knowledgeable instead of countless hours on here with many of the misinformed. 

Dont want to start an argument Apache but seriously have a good think man and everyone should get themselves properly informed and I bet it would reduce the negativity on here to zero. 

Cheers. 

P.S. Maybe zero would be too much to hope for.

[Apache... 2,585]

Thanks for your detailed reply Barrie much appreciated, we may take a different route but we end up at the same destination.

[chesney 5,314]

Lads are only giving there opinions corkman that's all everyone's entitled to that. I'm not one for going ta AGM and that prefer me own company but I will join both federations if it's funding that helps any cause.

[Glyn..... 5,199]

1 hour ago, Barrie said:

Hi Apache

Thank you for your understanding, I'm sure there's far more on which we'd agree than we could ever disagree .

Most definitely, you're correct. Apart from the UK, every other country where I've hunted and several others which I've visited have all had some form of licensing/regulatory system in place. And as a visiting outsider I never saw anything which led me to believe they had any less freedom to practice than we did here in the UK, in fact quite the reverse.

In some countries, the mere fact that the relevant Hunting Associations have detailed sets of rule books outlining the correct way to do things seems to serve as an incentive for practitioners to "do it right" and it certainly seems to work. I know for a fact that here in the UK the NWTF Code of Conduct for Terrierwork has served us all well, by enabling the public and politicians to differentiate between responsibly conducted terrierwork and acts of cruelty involving dogs. There is no doubt in my mind that it has been our saving grace to date and that without it terrierwork would long since have disappeared.

I was particularly struck with Germany, where to be classed as "A Hunter" seemed to be regarded almost like a badge of honour. It was heart warming to drive past houses which displayed large plaques on their walls of boars, badgers, various types of deer, pheasants etc indicating exactly what the householder hunted.

I also agree with your comment that "if the right foundations were put in a long time ago hunting may not be where it is today" and I've witnessed first hand a definite reluctance in some quarters to move with the times. Personally I believe that had all the various Hunting Associations produced Codes of Conduct which would stand up to public scrutiny, rather than simply attempt pay lip service, we would be in a much healthier position than we are today.

To me the other noticeable difference between the UK and other countries seems to be (as far as I'm aware), elsewhere it seems to be "practitioner groups" (those who hunt) who have the maximum influence on the right and wrong way to do things, whereas here in the UK it is those who seek to ban things who have far too much say on the matter. And that does concern me a great deal.

Don't get me wrong, given a choice (or even the risk) between a ban on terrwork and some form of licensing regime, I would grab at the latter with both hands. But given the unpredictability of politicians, the manner in which our Parliamentary system works and the undeserved influence of organisations such as the RSPCA, it is something I personally would approach with extreme caution.  

J.M.H.O.

Kindest Regards - Barrie

Hi Barrie , may i ask is the NWTF  via yourself testing the water on the forum, on the subject of   licensing , or is there plans to start drawing up plans for one , you have my trust anyway as I as well as most know there would be no terrier work without the NWTF, my only concern is when i first started with terriers you could dig and humanely control a certain mammal as long as you had written permission, that didn't last long and then the laws tighten up again in 1992 , my worry is we could face the same thing with fox,

regards 

Glyn 

 

[Apache... 2,585]

It's not that hard to comprehend Corkman everyone has different views that's how it is. I'm sure we will see a statement from the NWTF condoning the actions of the f***ing idiots in the countrymans weekly or some other publication, and your going to tell me the NWTF also tried to make a statement on the channel 4 programme saying 99.9% of professional law abiding working terrier men work with farmers and landowners controlling vermin but the programme refused them, and I'm sure their spokesman went out of their way to distance any organisation from the cruel b*****ds.

[Barrie 1,325]

1 hour ago, Glyn..... said:

Hi Barrie , may i ask is the NWTF  via yourself testing the water on the forum, on the subject of   licensing , or is there plans to start drawing up plans for one , you have my trust anyway as I as well as most know there would be no terrier work without the NWTF, my only concern is when i first started with terriers you could dig and humanely control a certain mammal as long as you had written permission, that didn't last long and then the laws tighten up again in 1992 , my worry is we could face the same thing with fox,

regards 

Glyn 

 

Hi Glyn

Most definitely not and I hope my comments have not come across as either promoting, or decrying licensing.

I was simply attempting to respond to the thoughts, suggestions and comments of others, and attempt to better inform the debate (obviously not very well LOL). I apologise if I did so in such a manner as to cause confusion.

Personally I sit smack bang on the fence on this one. In the past I've heard some very powerful arguments relating to licensing, not least the fact that licenses can just as easily be withdrawn as they can be issued..... the recent National Trust Vote was a classic example which drove that particular nail well and truly home.

Nevertheless, I wish I was lucky enough to own a crystal ball and could see into the future, it would have been really interesting to see how Blair's original proposals to "license and regulate hunting" would have panned out.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Kindest Regards - Barrie

  

 

[Barrie 1,325]

23 minutes ago, Apache... said:

It's not that hard to comprehend Corkman everyone has different views that's how it is. I'm sure we will see a statement from the NWTF condoning the actions of the f***ing idiots in the countrymans weekly or some other publication, and your going to tell me the NWTF also tried to make a statement on the channel 4 programme saying 99.9% of professional law abiding working terrier men work with farmers and landowners controlling vermin but the programme refused them, and I'm sure their spokesman went out of their way to distance any organisation from the cruel b*****ds.

Hi Apache

I think we share similar views on what was shown on TV and can only assume "condoning" is a typo for "condemning".

I can confirm the NWTF only learned of the program's existence 2 days before it was aired, first saw it at the same time as everyone else and was never approached by BBC Wales for comments, either before or after. Nor were they obliged to do so, as they were reporting an illegal activity (badger baiting), rather than anything to do with legitimate terrierwork. By not crossing that line, they left no proper grounds for a formal complaint (they did their homework in more ways than one).

Kindest Regards - Barrie

[Kaiser Sozé 282]

Years ago the otter hounds 'sought' protection for the otter resulting in them being licensed every year to hunt it. Then one year when they went to get the license it was simply revoked leaving them high and dry. Can you imagine the underhanded biased system that would come into play. Terriermen would be refused a license here there and everywhere based on false allegations of this, that and the other. And how would you fight it or how long would it take...1,2,3 years of keeping dogs waiting for a repeal would see anyone off. I'd be very careful of what you wish for. Do you think you could trust the authorities to be forthright and honest ??? They would gradually chip away until there's none of us Left.

[chesney 5,314]

A slow down on the mass production of pups for sale might be a start be more carefull who they sell the  dream ta might help.