FEO Interview booked

[andykllhr 91]

Nah, I imagine I'll be restricted to my permission until renewal, but that's fine

[Alsone 789]

On 01/05/2018 at 11:35, andykllhr said:

Yeah, put 7mm down as I occasionally stalk deer in Scotland with the wife's uncle, I fully expect that to be removed as I don't have any real justification and I haven't done the courses to stalk, not sure why I put it down to be honest lol. I spoke to my local gun shop about location of cabinet and according to them, Hampshire FEO's love lofts, even if burgled there's a slim chance of that being looked in, plus, difficult for kids and other family members to get to.

Thanks for that Walshie, that's exactly the sort of advice I am after

18 hours ago, villaman said:

Good luck  but I wouldn't think you will have a open ticket 

Occasional stalking by invitation is good reason.

Equally, for the above you have to have an open ticket because:

1. There's no land approval system in Scotland

2. By the very definition of stalking by invitation, you're not tied to anyone piece of land making a closed certificate impossible

3. Join BASC or similar before the visit, that way any issues, and you have someone to fight your corner

4. As for keys, just remember no other house member can have access including your wife. So any answer that indicates they'll be safe from anyone else getting access is a good one. Spare sets in safes only you know the combination to are good. The favourite answer required used to be down the local bank safe deposit but now of course there are no banks!

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Alsone

[andykllhr 91]

I'll try and push for an open ticket, as the wife's uncle has a couple of permissions in Scotland, one is actually the estate he lives on, so I am hopeful if required I can get a letter or email from the custodian up there, but will see if required first.

Thanks for all the wise words lads

[walshie 2,804]

15 minutes ago, andykllhr said:

Nah, I imagine I'll be restricted to my permission until renewal, but that's fine

Not necessarily. Most "closed" tickets allow you to shoot anywhere you have permission to shoot that is cleared for that calibre. You'd be very unlucky to be only allowed to shoot one bit of land. I'd imagine the airgun slots will be open though. 

[andykllhr 91]

Well, once locally, I have plenty of places to go in Scotland, but since the new rules up there I've only been once. I am on the constant hunt for new permissions, but they are hard to come by down here.

[Alsone 789]

If you're shooting in Scotland I'm sure the ticket has to be open as I'm sure there's no land approval system up there.

I have 2 friends, neither had shot before, both got 1st time applications on open tickets for .243 and .22-250. 12 months later one swapped the .243 for .308. No issues at all with the grant.

All you need to politely point out is that you're deer shooting by invitation in Scotland and thus an open ticket is required as there's no land approval system up there.

If you're doubtful about your force, as I said, join a shooting organisation that gives legal advice / representation for licence applications. You can also take advice pre- visit on what to say in relation to Scotland. That way you're covered if it all goes wrong. No force will probably want you on an open ticket for a 1st application. That said, with Scottish shooting, they can't stop you if you're showing good reason, there's no reason to deny a ticket, and they're granting it if there is no land system north of the border, as grant requires an open ticket. Even South of the border, if you're invitation deer shooting rather than tied to any shoots, again I'm pretty sure they have to grant open although it may be more of a battle in England due to them wanting you to shoot approved land 1st.

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Alsone

[walshie 2,804]

The fact Scotland doesn't have a land approval system in place doesn't mean you'd get an open ticket down here regardless of whether you were going to Scotland or not. They COULD be really difficult like some forces and insist on mentors and DSC1 even though there is no legal basis for them doing that. That would be far worse than a closed ticket IMO. 

Going from no ticket at all to an open for a deer calibre is pretty unlikely. Otherwise everyone would book a stalk in Scotland just to get an open ticket. 

Discuss it with your FEO and ask him the ins and outs of it. 

 

[Deker 3,450]

Good luck with the application and as long as you have sensible answers why you need each you should be ok, the 7mm could be a bit of a question though!

You will need to find a good place for your keys and keep it quiet!

 

[Alsone 789]

On 04/05/2018 at 13:00, walshie said:

The fact Scotland doesn't have a land approval system in place doesn't mean you'd get an open ticket down here regardless of whether you were going to Scotland or not. They COULD be really difficult like some forces and insist on mentors and DSC1 even though there is no legal basis for them doing that. That would be far worse than a closed ticket IMO. 

Going from no ticket at all to an open for a deer calibre is pretty unlikely. Otherwise everyone would book a stalk in Scotland just to get an open ticket. 

Discuss it with your FEO and ask him the ins and outs of it. 

 

My understanding is provided you can prove genuine invitations for stalking days, that is good reason. As it's not possible to grant a certificate to my knowledge that's regionally open / closed, that's going to require an open ticket.

However, individual forces can be difficult. That's why these days it's best to ensure you're covered by a shooting organisation that provides ticket grant legal cover. As I said, my 2 friends went from no shooting history to open ticket straight away, simply on the basis of a deer stalking invitation in Scotland. They do only target shoot South of the border at a club range, although I understand there's no restriction against sporting usage in England on any of their tickets. I should add, that their stalking is accompanied by a guide and I believe that was a requirement (although not set out as a mentor per se, just that they be accompanied by a professional guide).

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Alsone

[walshie 2,804]

7 hours ago, Alsone said:

My understanding is provided you can prove genuine invitations for stalking days, that is good reason. As it's not possible to grant a certificate to my knowledge that's regionally open / closed, that's going to require an open ticket.

However, individual forces can be difficult. That's why these days it's best to ensure you're covered by a shooting organisation that provides ticket grant legal cover. As I said, my 2 friends went from no shooting history to open ticket straight away, simply on the basis of a deer stalking invitation in Scotland. They do only target shoot South of the border at a club range, although I understand there's no restriction against sporting usage in England on any of their tickets. I should add, that their stalking is accompanied by a guide and I believe that was a requirement (although not set out as a mentor per se, just that they be accompanied by a professional guide).

 

Only being able to shoot with a professional guide is hardly an open ticket though. It might not have the wording about land cleared by the Chief Officer of Police but it's probably even more restrictive than a closed ticket where the land has to be cleared but you can use it whenever you like and with whoever you like. 

Booking a stalk in Scotland or anywhere else is unlikely to result in a properly "open" ticket. 

As said, the only person who will have the answer is the OP's own firearm team. 

 

[andykllhr 91]

Very valid points being raised Gents and it's giving me more questions to ask my FEO so I thank you all for that. I will ask about Scotland, my wife's uncle has completed a raft full of deer stalking courses, I wonder if a letter or email from him to my FEO will make any difference, I will ask and see what happens. I would like an open ticket obviously, but a closed is still good, I will update on Thursday.

Thanks again guys

Edited May 8, 2018 by andykllhr

[Deker 3,450]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 09:14, ianm said:

Because you occasionally stalk deer with someone , that is good reason to own a 7mm and you don't need to have done the bullshit DSC1 course have a deer calibre either. Don't let them bully you into not having anything you have good reason to own.

Sorry, no doubt taking this off topic, I accept the DSC serves a purpose, but it isn't/shouldn't be the norm/required, which is where it seems to be going.

Put it like this, who would you rather go Stalking with, the Gamekeeper, whos father, grandfather, great grandfather etc etc have been gamekeepers forever but no DSC, or the accountant who decided he wanted to shoot deer so he did a DSC????

Put another way, I am a deer mentor and have been for Wilts, Thames Valley and the Met, I am also on TVPolice HAD team, but I don't have a DSC so I can't shoot on FC land, a complete joke!

[Alsone 789]

On 08/05/2018 at 07:30, walshie said:

Only being able to shoot with a professional guide is hardly an open ticket though. It might not have the wording about land cleared by the Chief Officer of Police but it's probably even more restrictive than a closed ticket where the land has to be cleared but you can use it whenever you like and with whoever you like. 

Booking a stalk in Scotland or anywhere else is unlikely to result in a properly "open" ticket. 

As said, the only person who will have the answer is the OP's own firearm team. 

 

I take your point, but unless you're an expert on the land you're stalking on, going out with a guide is always going to be a requirement simply for sporting purposes, ticket condition or not. A closed certificate restricts the permissions you can visit even with an invitation, to those pre-approved for the deer calibre in question. Also if I remember correctly, I'm sure I read somewhere that even in England, having invitations to shoot should be sufficient to show good reason, even if you don't have you're own permission. Must admit, I've never heard of anyone being granted on that latter basis though. It does make sense though.

Deker has a valid point about his certificate. The big issue with Firearms Licensing is the rules are mostly "guidelines", which basically means each force can do whatever they want within reason. What's needed in my mind is for the "guidelines" to be the requirements that each force has to adhere to so as to stop the ridiculous situation we have currently where one force grants open / unconditional / certain calibres / deer, whilst another in exactly the same circumstances does not. The same with revocations. Some forces seem to jump at the slightest excuse to revoke (obviously don't want ownership), whilst others are more reasonable and more forgiving of human errors such as the single round that drops out of the box into the general part of the cabinet un-noticed whilst putting the ammo away. I've hear of people prosecuted and revoked, and others simply let off without even a formal warning, just a be more careful warning. Another stupid law is the 5 yr minimum term for Firearms Offences, which simply fails to address licensing infringements or licensee mistakes in a reasonable way eg failure to renew. Surely it's time the law was amended to take Licensed Firearms used for lawful purposes outside of this draconian law and replaced it with a series of warnings for infringements with the ultimate threat of a loss. eg why not a driving licence style points endorsement scheme, and discretion to warn rather than fine. 12 points to a ban (revocation) with 2 or 3 points for most infringements.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Alsone

[andykllhr 91]

Interview done with a thoroughly nice FEO, was happy with everything except the 7mm which is pretty much talked myself out of anyway. Should be good for .22LR, .17HMR, .20 & .22 FAC air, but we will have to see what comes from the vetting office.

Really happy, thank you all for your wise words

[Alsone 789]

What's he proposed for Deer then as non of the calibres are suitable, or have you dropped the idea of deer altogether?