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2 hours ago, foxdropper said:

But would you take someone else' word for it that both the dog and man were decent or would you want to see for yourself .It sort of smacks of scatterbreeding to me unless the bitch was related in which case I'd defo know about it .Lads using this stud this year and matey down the road next year have no vision for the future taking a gamble on a stud just because he works  ,not saying its' wrong but not the way I do things .

I’ve been hunting with the same lads a very long time fd, I trust their judgment and they trust mine if they said a lad was decent that would be good enough for me. In saying that if you haven’t been burned in this game ye haven’t been in it long enough but I won’t let it stop me helping a lad out. On the question of scatter breeding if someone wants to go down that road it’s up to them, all lines have to start somewhere and if it doesn’t work so be it. I’ve never thought I have the goose that laid the golden egg.

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Again some interesting points raised. The scatterbred scenario I agree, line breeding is the way to go, yet as stated above it has to start somewhere. The man didn’t ask for any particular dog, but th

There is a man who commented on this post who has some great blood in his yard any man would be proud of... he gifts pups out.. I have a bitch here he gifted me six years ago..1 of the best workers iv

The guy is looking pups for himself out of his bitch over a decent dog. As long as the pups aren’t sold on and are worked it wouldn’t annoy me in the slightest. Can see some good points from the comme

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people look down on scatter bred terriers and i cant for the life of me understand why it has to start somewhere

 all the black terriers originate from the same place people chase the lines and the big names rather than proper working terriers

there is many a man to scared to go out of the kennels to use a good dog or see others work and ive seen a few men end up with nothing or crap coz of kennel blindness 

 

put pride to one side and take your best bitch to the best dog you can source 

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I don't believe that for one second.

Fair enough two terriers from different lines may produce a good litter but that's it IMO. Think of any terrierman you know that has been at it for years and keeps good digging dogs, I'll bet they keep a family line of terriers?

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On 30/4/2018 at 11:02, Kaiser Sozé said:

IF he's a "Genuine bloke" as vouched for by your pal, whom you trust and his bitch is a good bitch, why wouldn't you give him the service? How did everyone else get on... only through the kindness of others.  We're only passing through, it's up to us to safeguard what was trusted to us, that includes giving others the chance to do the same. There's always the chance things might not go according to plan, but that's no reason to keep 'breeding' to yourself. All anyone can do is mix in the right circles (which usually prevents undesirables calling anyway) and when the opportunity arises vet that person as best you can. Besides having first pick (if interested), you then have no control over any resulting pups. Who knows it could click helping a good lad out and giving you an outcross related to your line if needed in the future..jmho👍

As above and once it was firmly stated and agreed no pups would be sold on!

If they person can't afford the overheads of rearing a litter people without have to charge others then they shouldn't be breeding in the first place - IMO. 

Works around here...... 

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2 hours ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

I don't believe that for one second.

Fair enough two terriers from different lines may produce a good litter but that's it IMO. Think of any terrierman you know that has been at it for years and keeps good digging dogs, I'll bet they keep a family line of terriers?

its got to start somewhere rabbit hunter! 

would you use a dog that was unrelated to yours if it was an outstanding worker and better than any dog you had in your kennel and producing good terriers? 

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what I've learnt for a nice stress free life and it wasn't a nice education .....  if i don't need a pup  i don't breed one ,  its just easier to say no and let them be upset  for not getting what they want , if the pups turn out crap its the dogs fault and there is always a chance you'll be seeing the blood for sale if not this generation then next  

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23 minutes ago, Dabhand said:

its got to start somewhere rabbit hunter! 

would you use a dog that was unrelated to yours if it was an outstanding worker and better than any dog you had in your kennel and producing good terriers? 

All depends on the circumstances tbh, I wouldn't just run to use a dog that was unrelated but producing good pups just because everyone else is doing it, because who's to say that the next generation would work ? I'd rather stick to the family of dogs I know that are producing continually.

Or I would use that dog and then breed back towards my dogs in the next generation, in other words use it as an outcross.

But I wouldn't just breed best to best every generation regardless of breeding, and like I said I don't know any good kennels of terriers that it's worked for?

But I know of a couple of kennels that have had a good steady flow of related dogs and then gone and used the 'dog of the moment' and regretted it further down the line.

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some good points and i agree i just feel people look down on terriers they call scatter bred 

how many years did stevens have terriers and how many times did he go out for matings or draft terriers in

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You could have a  well bred bitch like myself and not be personally in the click with the person who has stuff bred the same way...... So you approach said man and ask him for help??? now that person's been in the game along time and everyman wants what he's got in his kennels.... He doesn't breed  for ego, money only to keep his line going.... Only a fool would tuck such a man who helped you out imo.... If you can't keep your word... then you got f**k all in this life.... As for scatterbred dogs..... Most of the names have owned, worked and bred from dogs with a questionable back ground. It it works, doesn't put a foot wrong then why shouldn't it be bred from? Sometimes they gel if your lucky sometimes not. Every line started somewhere.... Think some folks forget that and try and claim the glory..... The genuine lads will tell you they just keeping them going.... For the right reasons, and not looking to have their names attached to a line👍

 

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4 hours ago, Glyn..... said:

what I've learnt for a nice stress free life and it wasn't a nice education .....  if i don't need a pup  i don't breed one ,  its just easier to say no and let them be upset  for not getting what they want , if the pups turn out crap its the dogs fault and there is always a chance you'll be seeing the blood for sale if not this generation then next  

So where did your first good blood come from then?

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12 minutes ago, jiggy said:

So where did your first good blood come from then?

i paid for it and a lot of money at the time, paid to use stud dogs i was never gifted nothing,  lots of work for the terriers and lots of selection 

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This isn’t aimed at anyone in particular but there is some mean tight cnuts in the dog game ( something I found out a long time ago)  a lot of these men don’t give out services not because they are afraid the pups won’t work but because they are afraid they Will. Jmho. 

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2 minutes ago, Glyn..... said:

i paid for it and a lot of money at the time, paid to use stud dogs i was never gifted nothing,  lots of work for the terriers and lots of selection 

Fair enough you paid for it but even young lads starting out now would be happy to pay for it but can't get the opportunity to buy it.  What becomes of our sport if the breeding dies with the men that claim it's their line. Does it just fizzle out. Most lads that claim to not give out or sell stuff have already spread out their breeding to the four winds and mostly for money. It's easy shut up shop when it's already out there. How many proper experienced men have never let anything leave their yard, genuinely i would say very very few.

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Always paid for my stock... I've waited 23 yrs to be gifted a pup from solid grafters that I was happy to have:whistling:..... Last season I was..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its the wrong colour and a Russell:laugh: :thumbs:DSC_1200.thumb.JPG.cc85c54e7c2707bb92f5801955a30d47.JPG

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