Mladic Guilty Of Genocide

[scothunter 12,609]

As i said earlier in regards to the SS not many did raping. 

Now the vast majority of the red army did. Says a lot about the .russians 

Anyway i will say no more this thread is veered in a different direction. 

 

[Accip74 7,112]

1 hour ago, k99yle said:

What do you mean, only through progression? Cheers

It's just my simplistic language mate. I mean we have progressed as people, even over a hundred years.....thus today, as the general population, we may not be so readily manipulated or compelled to committing such atrocities as we may of been yesteryear?

I could well be wrong. Hopefully we will never find out.......

[tilimangro 1,013]

10 hours ago, Accip74 said:

It's just my simplistic language mate. I mean we have progressed as people, even over a hundred years.....thus today, as the general population, we may not be so readily manipulated or compelled to committing such atrocities as we may of been yesteryear?

I could well be wrong. Hopefully we will never find out.......

Sadly I think you’re wrong

I think the YouTube clip mentioned explains that the  normal guys committing atrocities in Nazi germany was done incremintally and creeped until thu were full blown f***ing psychopaths

when you’re told what you’re doing is the right thing repeatedly it becomes easier and easier

there’s clearly a line in the sand for everyone but when done as a group things change because of psychological influences

fascinating but also detracting from the thread

as said this war played out on our screens and we all saw it and nothing was done for a long long time

 

[k99yle 53]

12 hours ago, Accip74 said:

It's just my simplistic language mate. I mean we have progressed as people, even over a hundred years.....thus today, as the general population, we may not be so readily manipulated or compelled to committing such atrocities as we may of been yesteryear?

I could well be wrong. Hopefully we will never find out.......

Lets not forget that we are Mammals. We may have a different form of intelligence from other animals but the bottom line is we are animals. Do you remember how you felt  the first time you killed a fish or a rabbit? Now you can do it automatically with no emotion. All these barbaric men who commit the most heinous crimes can easily justify them. We are excuse making machines. We have excuses for everything in life. We haven't progressed over thousands of years let alone 100 years. The only difference with warfare today is that you don't have to look them in the eye as you murder them and hear them beg for mercy. We do it from a helicopter gunship 2 miles away or sat behind a computer screen 10 miles off shore.  Human beings are the lowest form of life. 

You may be a loving and kind individual but how much would it take for you to snap or be manipulated into doing evil things?????? 

 

Hopefully we will never find out.........

 

 

[Accip74 7,112]

5 hours ago, k99yle said:

Lets not forget that we are Mammals. We may have a different form of intelligence from other animals but the bottom line is we are animals. Do you remember how you felt  the first time you killed a fish or a rabbit? Now you can do it automatically with no emotion. All these barbaric men who commit the most heinous crimes can easily justify them. We are excuse making machines. We have excuses for everything in life. We haven't progressed over thousands of years let alone 100 years. The only difference with warfare today is that you don't have to look them in the eye as you murder them and hear them beg for mercy. We do it from a helicopter gunship 2 miles away or sat behind a computer screen 10 miles off shore.  Human beings are the lowest form of life. 

You may be a loving and kind individual but how much would it take for you to snap or be manipulated into doing evil things?????? 

 

Hopefully we will never find out.........

 

 

You make great points & I agree with much of it, but I still think as people we have progressed. There will always be people well up for it with little manipulation, but in our posts we are comparing nazi Germany with the average british bloke of today. Look how dissalusuioned we are with government today, we barely take it seriously? You think a government of today could manipulate the average brit bloke to carry out the worst of atrocities in a matter of weeks? I don't think so, but agree many men could, maybe all they would need?

as an edit. Remember it weren't that long ago we thought of the irish as second class citizens & you think we haven't progressed? Do you think we could have been manipulated into rounding loads of innocent irish people up in the 80s & mass executing them? Yes I know awful stuff happened, but not on that scale.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Accip74

[ChrisJones 7,973]

5 hours ago, k99yle said:

You may be a loving and kind individual but how much would it take for you to snap or be manipulated into doing evil things??????

 

Never. I could never be manipulated into raping and torturing civilians. I sure as shit aren't going to swallow Goebbels-esque propaganda telling me that X needs to be eradicated from the earth through rape and torture. There are a lot of comparisons to the Einsatzgruppen appearing on this thread but they're failing to mention that even they couldn't do it all the time. There were many that did it willingly. There were also those that could only do under the influence of drugs and alcohol and still many more that couldn't pull the trigger at all when it came to shooting unarmed civilians. PTSD was rife and even when Himmler sat through his first mass killing he couldn't handle it when it was up close and personal. Gassing came not only as a more efficient way of killing but because of the toll mass killings via the gun were having on the soldiers.

I agree that people can be manipulated into doing these things but I don't believe it can be done if they don't already have it in them. You can't make decent people commit barbaric crimes willingly.

Edited November 26, 2017 by ChrisJones

[WILF 44,194]

Chris, I don’t agree with your last passage.......you put people in a position where they feel backed into a corner and they will do almost anything.

If a population believes it needs to anialate another population to preserve themselves then they will do it by whatever means and in the most aggressive way possible.

If mass killing and terror is the instrument then that’s what they will do.

[WILF 44,194]

A recent example would be that bloke who shot Jo cox MP........now the easy to deal with response is “he is an odd mark....bit of a loner......social misfit blah blah”

Easy, labelled and boxed.....let’s move on.

But I look and think, what has made that bloke think that cold bloodedly murdering a young woman, wife and mother is the only option he has.......it’s the only way he can express what he feels to make anyone listen or he feels that people like that poor woman should be eradicated ?

What are we missing that gets that bloke from ordinary chap to shooting young women in the street?

And what’s more, something is obviously wrong that a heel of a lot of people could actually understand why he did it!!

Thats what the focus should be, mending the bit that got matey from A to B......not just carrying on with nutty social engineering and pretending everything is perfect.

 

[Accip74 7,112]

7 minutes ago, WILF said:

A recent example would be that bloke who shot Jo cox MP........now the easy to deal with response is “he is an odd mark....bit of a loner......social misfit blah blah”

Easy, labelled and boxed.....let’s move on.

But I look and think, what has made that bloke think that cold bloodedly murdering a young woman, wife and mother is the only option he has.......it’s the only way he can express what he feels to make anyone listen or he feels that people like that poor woman should be eradicated ?

What are we missing that gets that bloke from ordinary chap to shooting young women in the street?

And what’s more, something is obviously wrong that a heel of a lot of people could actually understand why he did it!!

Thats what the focus should be, mending the bit that got matey from A to B......not just carrying on with nutty social engineering and pretending everything is perfect.

 

True, but how often has that happened or will happen for the same reasons? Not disputing the mans motives, but people murder other people everyday for all kids of reasons that they feel are justified. Do we need to start looking hard at women, because after all, boyfriends & husbands tend to murder them more? Maybe women are the problem?

I completely understand what you are saying, but there is no where near a pattern yet, but maybe we will see one soon?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Accip74

[WILF 44,194]

Accip, no pattern and not common......but given carte Blanche and the freedom of war there would be a small army waiting to heap vengeance on people they saw as the enemy.

i can almost guarantee it.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,553]

How would you feel if you saw that poster I put up in your home town?

Not a trick or anything , just interested in people’s views  

[ChrisJones 7,973]

27 minutes ago, WILF said:

Chris, I don’t agree with your last passage.......you put people in a position where they feel backed into a corner and they will do almost anything.

If a population believes it needs to anialate another population to preserve themselves then they will do it by whatever means and in the most aggressive way possible.

If mass killing and terror is the instrument then that’s what they will do.

Fair comments, my friend, but we're kind of skirting around the whole rape as a military tactic that was brought into the Balkans conflict. I accept that terror and mass killings are part of a war. It's kind of a shitty situation where one group fights another and people die. Rape as a military tactic is just not acceptable at all, my friend, regardless of the perceived justification and perceived level of threat. That is a line that one has to cross. This is why the likes of Karadzic and Mladic are convicted of war crimes and the likes of Rommel and Gerstein are praised with acclaim. People die in battle but dragging out unarmed people to be raped and tortured in the street takes a special kind of scumbag.

9 minutes ago, WILF said:

A recent example would be that bloke who shot Jo cox MP........now the easy to deal with response is “he is an odd mark....bit of a loner......social misfit blah blah”

Easy, labelled and boxed.....let’s move on.

But I look and think, what has made that bloke think that cold bloodedly murdering a young woman, wife and mother is the only option he has.......it’s the only way he can express what he feels to make anyone listen or he feels that people like that poor woman should be eradicated ?

What are we missing that gets that bloke from ordinary chap to shooting young women in the street?

And what’s more, something is obviously wrong that a heel of a lot of people could actually understand why he did it!!

Thats what the focus should be, mending the bit that got matey from A to B......not just carrying on with nutty social engineering and pretending everything is perfect.

 

I agree that figuring out what the f*ck went wrong is a good thing. The whole point is to try and prevent it happening again. The whole not killing people is the deal we make for living in a society. In the west it works fairly well. When that deal collapses, like it did in the Balkans, people will die as a result. The difference here is that these people suddenly decided that raping and torturing their neighbours and their neighbours' kids was the new good thing for society. That means that the only thing stopping things getting rapey were society's laws. That meant that these people are absolutely okay with raping and torturing but only when they think no one is looking!

That's the real elephant in the room and while we can speculate on what made matey pull the trigger we're overlooking that certain sections of society think that raping and torturing people is okay if they think they can get away with it. Those are the people that are a massive part of the problem.

 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

12 minutes ago, WILF said:

Accip, no pattern and not common......but given carte Blanche and the freedom of war there would be a small army waiting to heap vengeance on people they saw as the enemy.

i can almost guarantee it.

Absolutely agree but raping and torturing the enemy isn't acceptable, is it?

12 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

How would you feel if you saw that poster I put up in your home town?

Not a trick or anything , just interested in people’s views  

I'd be loading magazines and looking for an exit.

[scothunter 12,609]

Most einsatzgruppen were not even german. 

They were voluteers readily amd happily wanting to shoot those in there  own country they deemed as a scurge and were in there opinion a threat to there nation.

Encouraged and armed by the SS. Its a myth the actual SS carried out the shootings in other countries.There was no shortage of volunteers in linthuania, ukraine latvia etc

 

 

 

[Accip74 7,112]

6 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

How would you feel if you saw that poster I put up in your home town?

Not a trick or anything , just interested in people’s views  

Obviously depending on the context determines your reaction. Now in my town it would be ludicrous, but if I thought anytime soon an enemy would be marching in & destroy my family it would either be fight or flight? Honestly, if I thought I could get my family out of harms way I 100% would, even if it meant leaving my country, the safety of my family would come way before any national pride & I don't mind admitting that. If I had to stay & fight, then rape & torture just wouldn't be on my agenda, killing yes, but not needless animal behaviour.