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Knew a lad that used to visit Bill often, he said that he always liked Sid Wilkinsons dogs and if he, or Middleton had a good 'un on he would try to use it.

Used to sit at his kitchen table when he went, once with a revolver on it. Bill said he chased Plummer down the road with it when he came to him reserching his Fell Terrier book. That's why Bill didn't make it in..!

He was a nice bloke with hands like a bunch of bananas!

The Jock in Fell Terrier was Gary's.

Bill favoured a harder terrier.

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Found these old photos of Bill, Doug and Stan when we were at Bill's place, he is holding a dog that he gave me. The photos of the terriers are non-descript northern working terriers photos taken arou

Thanks mate . Bit further back than I have so glad I asked . The Ulswater dog , if anyone is interested was called Rusty if all checks out ., bred by R Tomlinson . . The name Davey then reappears with

I’m sure there are guys that keep these dogs alive an well, I’m mates with bills grandson an he don’t keep them he keeps lurcher a but when asking around it seems there’s deffo men out there that knew

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48 minutes ago, Bosun11 said:

Knew a lad that used to visit Bill often, he said that he always liked Sid Wilkinsons dogs and if he, or Middleton had a good 'un on he would try to use it.

Used to sit at his kitchen table when he went, once with a revolver on it. Bill said he chased Plummer down the road with it when he came to him reserching his Fell Terrier book. That's why Bill didn't make it in..!

He was a nice bloke with hands like a bunch of bananas!

The Jock in Fell Terrier was Gary's.

Bill favoured a harder terrier.

Wasn't your man's dog Duke, brightmore ? and he reliable chap, .a good digging man . You're mate when out with it didn't he , when he was going to get the service off it and he told him how it was , because he was honest, 

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  • 2 years later...

hi rom thought that might have been you on the Spartacus  Scratch post. How's things hope your keeping well.  Was talking to staff lad a while back said he was going up to use an old dog, its the first I had seen him since Wales lol. I told him I've still got an old white dog out of Bullseye x Bomber that he could use lol I wonder what Bill would make of the internet, and the way the dog game is know. . What about BW you ever come across him haven't seen him in yrs last I herd he had his kennels robbed. 

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Everyone doubts the tales of a  terrier killing a badger to ground especially now that these tales have a few decades of time behind them, but of all the tales I've heard brightmore bred terriers feature more than any other type, days long gone now. 

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  • 11 months later...
On 18/11/2017 at 11:23, rob284 said:

Why does it have to come from one small gene pool? The black dog has so many varying types which suggests that it could have started in several areas of the country from several different dogs. Lads would have been breeding black dogs all over the north, from the lakes to the mining towns of lancs and would never have seen buck or breay, due to transport. Its common knowledge the black dog came from infusing bull, and im sure buck breay werent the only lads doing it with success.

It’s not that it has to cone from a small gene pool of dog. Researchers who specialize in the development of animals from small populations spent years looking into how dog breeds both working and show started from either a small population of related individuals or a group of unrelated individuals selected based on specific working traits. In both situations line breeding inbreeding were used over a number of generations so specific Type could become fixed breeds bred for show had Fixed type based on appearance and fixed type for working lines were based on the traits needed for the work being selected for

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On 18/11/2017 at 11:46, rob284 said:

Your only known if you let yourself be known. Plenty of lads across the north would have been doing the same but wouldnt be portraying themselves to be big breeders like breay or nuttall. These small time breeders in numerous backyards in small circles of local people will vastly outweigh the volume of dogs that buck and breay could have ever produce.

And. Due to being small time breeders as you have started doesn’t usually result having the  wide dispersal of dogs that is needed to effect whole population not just limited to a small region. Which based on what you stated about unknown people  breeding a very small percentage of dogs from the breed 

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On 20/11/2017 at 08:04, neil cooney said:

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and at the end of the day it's the last 5 or 6 generations that are more important than terriers that were alive 40 plus years ago.

But, having read just about everything that's ever been wrote about those 2 gentlemen and having seen or in my possession plenty of pedigrees of their terriers I would be surprised in Cyril Breay ever used a bull terrier or a terrier he knew had bull in it. Frank Buck on the other hand seemed to be a bit more of a maverick and might have, but again, I've never seen any evidence that he did. But I could be wrong ?

People see a strong head, smooth coat and straight away shout "bull". How did the Staff itself get a strong head and jaw as well as a smooth coat ? From breeding for performance, that's how. So why wouldn't there be lines of strong headed smooth terriers who's breeders have bred the best to the best for a job and have no bull blood in them ???? They are out there.

 

That’s not necessarily true there are dogs that I can go back close to when the brood dog I own was developed and due to the number of times a dog is in the pedigree they haver more influence than a dog in the second generation which is a grandparent. And the specific dog I’m referring to died over 70 years ago and I goes as fat back as 14 or more generations 

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On 09/01/2020 at 08:01, downsview said:

Everyone doubts the tales of a  terrier killing a badger to ground especially now that these tales have a few decades of time behind them, but of all the tales I've heard brightmore bred terriers feature more than any other type, days long gone 

Ive seen it happen dont no if it was in bad health or what it looked ok.

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