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Is Ukip At Risk Of Becoming The Uk Nazi Party?


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Stumfelter I don't think Wilf is saying he pays over 50% income tax. He's saying over 50% of his annual earnings ends up as tax revenue. He might still be wrong but that's how I am understanding it.

I'd trust him over Corbyn every time !

What state penshion ?........they spent that ages ago. They are borrowing whatever you get off your kids and grandkids

 

 

It's obvious our state is working against it's people at least as often as not,so why venerate anyone for spending a long time feeding it taxes?

Those taxes pay for operation Galileo,immigrant housing and benefits,more police to decide what you can and can't say.

 

I do pay in myself,but if I was without responsibility I wouldn't.

Great if your self employed, but most haven't got the choice if they are employed.

 

 

Not to mention you get taxed in more ways than income and NI.

 

VAT, fuel duty, road tax, insurance tax, inheritance, council, stamp duty.

 

 

True,but I don't think Fuel or road tax'd be a problem on the dole.

 

I reckon I could easily enough become a net negative.

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True,but I don't think Fuel or road tax'd be a problem on the dole.

 

I reckon I could easily enough become a net negative.

 

 

Hey, if you want to live on Welfare then crack on fella. I mean personally I'd see you and your family in a hostel being sent out to work for the council at the absolute bare minimum cost to society but under our current system you'd be treated better than that I'm sure.

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True,but I don't think Fuel or road tax'd be a problem on the dole.

 

I reckon I could easily enough become a net negative.

 

 

Hey, if you want to live on Welfare then crack on fella. I mean personally I'd see you and your family in a hostel being sent out to work for the council at the absolute bare minimum cost to society but under our current system you'd be treated better than that I'm sure.

 

 

I don't,I'm fairly sure i could if I was free and single.

 

The point is paying into this system is nothing to be proud of imo.

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I don't,I'm fairly sure i could if I was free and single.

 

The point is paying into this system is nothing to be proud of imo.

 

 

I know you don't, just hypothetical. :thumbs:

 

I don't think it's necessarily something to be proud of or ashamed of. Independence and responsibility are things to be proud of imo! Taxation is necessary for government and unless you are an An-Cap or Commy (I think?) then some form of government is a necessity. If we maintain the view that it's justified to avoid taxation because we don't agree with the democratically elected laws or enforcement of those laws then every one will be justified in paying zero tax. Because you'll never have a form of government/law that suits everyone perfectly. Hell, I doubt what we have suits anyone perfectly. The nature of democracy is that it's a best fit. Therefore the original premise that government is necessary becomes unsustainable.

 

Some folks just accept that and get on with it, maybe they feel proud or maybe they don't. Some folks though feel like the system is just too bad a fit for them and simply refuse to play where they can get away with it. It's not so much principled or reasonable as it is just saying "f**k you and your reasonableness!".

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I was over in England a few weeks ago and met up with an old pal.

We was in the Indian having a bit and putting the world to rights as you do and he said "round here there's no excuse for anybody to not have a job"

 

Now in my old area, a 3 bed house will be between £1500-£2000 a month to rent so I said to him "you ain't thinking about it mate, some people can't afford to work"

 

And that I am afraid is true and says a lot about the tax system.

 

A bloke on £10 an hour (not everyone is a grad) can't afford to work if he is the sole bread winner and has a couple of kids, by the time he has paid all the different taxes and bills he can't afford the rent and that's a fact!

I mean, what sort of tax system makes it not worth doing any overtime ?.......and yet for plenty that is the case and so they are stuck in the "barely existing" catergory.

Work all your life, have f**k all and die !........to me it's only logic that some blokes don't want to give the government a penny.

And why shouldn't they take advantage of the system where possible ?.......every other c**t from all over the shop does.

There's no glory in being a poor martyr !

 

The U.K. Has whored itself to every culture and outside influence there is, well if it wants to be a whore, treat it like a whore.......that's just good sense because nobody is going to be giving you a medal when you are dead.......they will make your kids sell your house.....but no medal ! Lol

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Even up north east where rent is considerably less most familys need 2 working parents wilf, if they want any quality of life that is

I know it's become the norm mate but to me it's just not right......in my humble and old fashioned opinion mate kids who have a parent at home do better and they wonder why society is going down the khazi.

 

I have a pal who is a welder, head of department on a big site and gets £40k a year....he is the sole bread winner and him and his family struggle all the time.

Not a flash Harry or a big liver, just a normal bloke who can't do any overtime because he will end up with about £10 for the day and it ain't worth the petrol.......surely that just can't be right?

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I don't,I'm fairly sure i could if I was free and single.

 

The point is paying into this system is nothing to be proud of imo.

I know you don't, just hypothetical. :thumbs:

 

I don't think it's necessarily something to be proud of or ashamed of. Independence and responsibility are things to be proud of imo! Taxation is necessary for government and unless you are an An-Cap or Commy (I think?) then some form of government is a necessity. If we maintain the view that it's justified to avoid taxation because we don't agree with the democratically elected laws or enforcement of those laws then every one will be justified in paying zero tax. Because you'll never have a form of government/law that suits everyone perfectly. Hell, I doubt what we have suits anyone perfectly. The nature of democracy is that it's a best fit. Therefore the original premise that government is necessary becomes unsustainable.

 

Some folks just accept that and get on with it, maybe they feel proud or maybe they don't. Some folks though feel like the system is just too bad a fit for them and simply refuse to play where they can get away with it. It's not so much principled or reasonable as it is just saying "f**k you and your reasonableness!".

Personally I think most people don't have a problem with contributing to a government if it's fair and they can see value for money.

But I'm sorry, 61/2 months of your labour every year to make your life worse is madness any way you cut it.

 

I have a simple way of looking at things, if a builder came to your house every five years and relieved you of 2.5 years wages and then f****d the whole job up.......came back after another 5 years, and did the same again for the rest of your life you would rightly be considered a f***ing idiot for keep employing the builder and keep giving him half your wages.

 

It really is as simple as that in my world.

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Personally I think most people don't have a problem with contributing to a government if it's fair and they can see value for money.

But I'm sorry, 61/2 months of your labour every year to make your life worse is madness any way you cut it.

 

I have a simple way of looking at things, if a builder came to your house every five years and relieved you of 2.5 years wages and then f****d the whole job up.......came back after another 5 years, and did the same again for the rest of your life you would rightly be considered a f***ing idiot for keep employing the builder and keep giving him half your wages.

 

It really is as simple as that in my world.

 

 

I'm not saying that not wanting to contribute to a system you feel is wrong is wrong mate. But people have to accept that they're not going to get exactly what they want and more importantly what we have is a product of democracy. A best fit based on the many pulling and pushing forces within our society. Simply taking the view that 'it's alright to contribute f**k all because I don't like what they do with some of it' taken to the extreme means no one ever has to pay tax and therefore there is no government at all. I appreciate there comes a point for some when it's just too much and there conscience won't let them continue but I see too many just using it as an excuse.

 

I think of it like this. Most folk will have a moan about tax and how the government spends it, but when you challenge them on how they think things should change more often than not they refuse to bin any significant public sector projects and simply say "those tax dodging rich fuckers need to pay their fair share!" followed by "End foreign aid!". It's a non starter and nothing more than a weak justification for their greed, who even if they got what they allegedly wanted would still avoid tax at the expense of everyone else.

 

For some people it's all just an excuse. For some they actually can't bare contributing to a system that they feel is harming them unreasonably.

 

Finally, a fundamental point that I really can't stress enough is that all this is the product of democracy. We're born into a society that we have no choice over but does give us the tools to change it to ensure a fit that best suits everyone. If we are unhappy with that 'best fit' then it is democracy that we have issue with and frankly the alternative is far more terrifying.

 

All that said, if I were to give a summary it'd be "tax is a necessary evil but it is your responsibility as a free man to avoid it where ever possible to keep the government honest!". LOL

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