Big Cat Sighting

[Francie 6,362]

54 minutes ago, foxdropper said:

Nobody needs to Francie .It seem that’s a given after 5 years

Just because solid evidence hasn't been obtained yet doesn't mean it won't lol

[EDDIE B 3,120]

30 minutes ago, sandymere said:

The Science. ( Ignore if science is not your thing.)

Population, reproduction and survival, randomness/stochasticity?

What are the factors?

Genetic, the smaller the population the greater the vulnerability to random chance causing genetic drift. This results in allele being lost from a population resulting in a reduction in genetic diversity. This leads to inbreeding depression, the proliferation of negative recessive genes reducing adaptive potential. The rule of thumb is a 50/500 rule, ie a population of 50 is needed to prevent inbreeding depression and a population of 500 is needed to avoid genetic drift.

Environmental.

These are things like changing farming practice, climate etc, these effect all populations to a degree big or small but with very small population they can have a major impact ie building on a safe breeding area etc.

Natural events.

Less likely to impact in the UK, major droughts or massive forest fire etc.

Demographic.

This has an increased impact on smaller populations as they unlike large populations have lower numbers to even out the impact of random events. Things like breeding potential, sex ratio etc. These impacts are a known driver of extinction in populations under 50 individuals.

The layman’s terms. ( for those that ignored the above)

 

A few random big cats being released 40 or 50 years ago are very unlikely to have potential to provide an ongoing population surviving today.

To be honest , I ignored the above, but your spot on with the little bit at the bottom lad

[foxdropper 17,092]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

The onus is on greyman to prove it yes,but he don't have to if he don't want to,hopefully he can refrain from biting with a few folk an he can get some evidence out.

That’s all anyone has wanted Francie .Thing is mate if the standard of proof stays on a par we will have the same issue again mate .

[lanesra 3,961]

4 hours ago, sandymere said:

Nobody sees a wallaby, it was just a reference to prior plausibility, ie we have good evidence of Wallabies in the UK but not big cats. 

 

prior plausibility - The Skeptic's Dictionary

SKEPDIC.COM

 

 

Ah well then as a reference it could be a green parakeet

[Arry 18,536]

So no amount of witness count they are all daft or imaging what they saw (even if two people so the same thing) after fame or liars. Well I know about eight people that have witnessed them none are any of the above all hunting people one being a farmer that runs a big shoot. Also the farmers daughter that had one come over a hedge and land about ten foot in front of her, she screamed her head off probably just a farm moggy. Right.

Now I don't believe there is a large group of breading Big Cats but I do believe they have bred as a few are still getting sighted. Now every one to a man that I know thats has seen one has never reported their sightings to the police to the media or even a big cat group. Just talk among fellow country men.

But of course they are all liars or mistaken or thick. Well believe it or not from me the are not any of that and I'm not either.

There was weekly sightings in the late 80's and 90's around the South West now a lot less. But to say they were wiped out by a hard winter I find that hard to believe as Canada has a little snow every year and they do okay there.

Personally I think as the mobile phones get better cameras on them as they are now we will get better footage. 

People like GM have a hobby it's not mine but I find the subject very interesting. I hope they do get some good footage, but suspect no matter how good it is it will just get poo poo'ed. 

 

Dartmoor Zoo owner admits they released pumas into the wild in the 1980s | Daily Mail Online

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

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After the escape of Flaviu the lynx from Dartmoor Zoo two weeks ago, owner Benjamin Mee has revealed that wild pumas did roam the area for over 30 years before...

Beast of Dartmoor mystery SOLVED after circus owner 'released three pumas in 1970s' - Mirror Online

WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK

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Circus owner Mary Chipperfield is thought to have released Give

Cheers Arry

[EDDIE B 3,120]

7 minutes ago, Arry said:

So no amount of witness count they are all daft or imaging what they saw (even if two people so the same thing) after fame or liars. Well I know about eight people that have witnessed them none are any of the above all hunting people one being a farmer that runs a big shoot. Also the farmers daughter that had one come over a hedge and land about ten foot in front of her, she screamed her head off probably just a farm moggy. Right.

Now I don't believe there is a large group of breading Big Cats but I do believe they have bred as a few are still getting sighted. Now every one to a man that I know thats has seen one has never reported their sightings to the police to the media or even a big cat group. Just talk among fellow country men.

But of course they are all liars or mistaken or thick. Well believe it or not from me the are not any of that and I'm not either.

There was weekly sightings in the late 80's and 90's around the South West now a lot less. But to say they were wiped out by a hard winter I find that hard to believe as Canada has a little snow every year and they do okay there.

Personally I think as the mobile phones get better cameras on them as they are now we will get better footage. 

People like GM have a hobby it's not mine but I find the subject very interesting. I hope they do get some good footage, but suspect no matter how good it is it will just get poo poo'ed. 

 

Dartmoor Zoo owner admits they released pumas into the wild in the 1980s | Daily Mail Online

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

---

After the escape of Flaviu the lynx from Dartmoor Zoo two weeks ago, owner Benjamin Mee has revealed that wild pumas did roam the area for over 30 years before...

 

Beast of Dartmoor mystery SOLVED after circus owner 'released three pumas in 1970s' - Mirror Online

WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK

---

Circus owner Mary Chipperfield is thought to have released Give

Cheers Arry

Thing is Arry. If we are to believe that there is a breeding population, then there must be more than just a few animals in the country. All the different sightings of different colours, shapes, and sizes of animals, all over the country, we must be talking hundreds at least. I mean it's been over thirty years of regular sightings. All hours if the day. Not at all illusive, yet so illusive. That's the part that makes absolutely no sense.

[Arry 18,536]

33 minutes ago, EDDIE B said:

Thing is Arry. If we are to believe that there is a breeding population, then there must be more than just a few animals in the country. All the different sightings of different colours, shapes, and sizes of animals, all over the country, we must be talking hundreds at least. I mean it's been over thirty years of regular sightings. All hours if the day. Not at all illusive, yet so illusive. That's the part that makes absolutely no sense.

I just my view on it mate I have really good mates some that were in the same class at school as me back in 50's early 60's. I've hunted and poached with them all my life if they said they seen one they seen one.

I think I'm the only one in all my old pals that has not seen one. They are not liars been in a lot of scrapes with some of them you know the people you can trust.

I strongly believe there are still a few big cat's around the South West our steep wooded valleys are good ground for hiding them. I keep an open mind and really hope GM or any body else will get some good foot age one day, but fear even if they do will get shot down and ridiculed. 

Cheers Arry

[EDDIE B 3,120]

27 minutes ago, Arry said:

I just my view on it mate I have really good mates some that were in the same class at school as me back in 50's early 60's. I've hunted and poached with them all my life if they said they seen one they seen one.

I think I'm the only one in all my old pals that has not seen one. They are not liars been in a lot of scrapes with some of them you know the people you can trust.

I strongly believe there are still a few big cat's around the South West our steep wooded valleys are good ground for hiding them. I keep an open mind and really hope GM or any body else will get some good foot age one day, but fear even if they do will get shot down and ridiculed. 

Cheers Arry

Very honest post that Arry. Appreciate it.

[greg64 2,560]

Animal sinner or saint: The infamous circus performer who 'released big cats on Dartmoor' - Devon Live                                in the article Arry put up the ben mee confirms they were released and in this article he says he can't confirm or deny that they were released and does not mention ever seeing one  

[Arry 18,536]

1 hour ago, greg64 said:

Animal sinner or saint: The infamous circus performer who 'released big cats on Dartmoor' - Devon Live                                in the article Arry put up the ben mee confirms they were released and in this article he says he can't confirm or deny that they were released and does not mention ever seeing one  

I don't think we will ever know the truth but I personally believe she decided to release the Pumas in a landscape she knew they could survive in. Would you admit you let them go as liability cases were going on about every thing.

The area around Dartmoor Zoo and surrounding moor close by has been a place where a lot of sightings have taken place. I believe drawn to the scent of the Cats they have in captivity there.

As said I'm not looking to justify any of this it's just my view after been given convincing accounts by friends and acquaintances I have met over many years.

Cheers Arry

[Greyman 25,165]

1 hour ago, greg64 said:

Animal sinner or saint: The infamous circus performer who 'released big cats on Dartmoor' - Devon Live                                in the article Arry put up the ben mee confirms they were released and in this article he says he can't confirm or deny that they were released and does not mention ever seeing one  

I will attempt to answer this for you and not aimed at yourself but in general this is were the problems occur is people popping in and out getting bits of info and half truths without bothering to find out the full story, Ben mee has only recently taken over the running of Dartmoor zoo and in truth knows very little of the goings on down there over the past 40 years, the previous owners however were there through out and both the wife and son appeared in the recent documentary giving there accounts, there are also members of staff that have been there far longer than Ben that have done podcasts regarding seeing the cats on the moor on there way into work in the mornings, if anybody here has a genuine interest I would suggest you go and have a listen to the podcast because me and a lot of others like me all send our findings to it, some of the loudest critics on here have never bothered which once again just highlights there only real interest is being a prick on a forum as opposed to the subject matter hope that helps

[SheepChaser 8,082]

On 03/12/2022 at 15:37, shaaark said:

Sheepy, you're starting to sound like more than a few members on here, with the above post. 

Because you've not witnessed it yourself, it COULDN'T have happened?!

Really .....

im not doubting that some big cats were released..... but I find the idea that there is a breeding population out there pretty hard to believe. 
 

Not just because I haven’t witnessed it .... but because no one had credibly. There has not been one single occasion where there has been irrefutable evidence. 
 

If they were here in any numbers or permanent population, there would by now be some sort of concrete proof. 

[Arry 18,536]

1 hour ago, SheepChaser said:

Really .....

im not doubting that some big cats were released..... but I find the idea that there is a breeding population out there pretty hard to believe. 
 

Not just because I haven’t witnessed it .... but because no one had credibly. There has not been one single occasion where there has been irrefutable evidence. 

If they were here in any numbers or permanent population, there would by now be some sort of concrete proof. 

Mate I believe there has to have been some breeding as Big Cats that were seen in around 2000 would not be still around and I know of sightings in the Southhams ( South Devon ) since then. One such encounter I that happened about a year or 18 months ago a chap driving to work first light seen a Black big cat in a open gate way so put his vehicle in the gate way and watched it run up the field. He' a shooting man and angler who knows exactly what he was seeing. He would only tell of the account through my brother-in-law as he has a business and didn't want people to think he was lying or nuts. Thats how bad it is.

I also think they do seen but don't say nothing for fear of ridicule. As said before none of my mates reported or went to the media just told mates.

Cheers Arry

Edited December 5, 2022 by Arry

[shaaark 10,114]

1 hour ago, SheepChaser said:

Really .....

im not doubting that some big cats were released..... but I find the idea that there is a breeding population out there pretty hard to believe. 
 

Not just because I haven’t witnessed it .... but because no one had credibly. There has not been one single occasion where there has been irrefutable evidence. 
 

If they were here in any numbers or permanent population, there would by now be some sort of concrete proof. 

As I've said a few times, in this thread.  The odd pairing over the years, yeah, very feasible.  A thriving population of regularly breeding big cats, no.

But just to put things into a bit of perspective, as to people banging on about pics off people's mobile phones, or whatever, and this is just my thinking, might be very wrong, but, weren't there more frequent sighting in the late 70's and early 80's, when due to the dangerous animals licence, there were more cats 'set free', and obviously a few escapees, add to the fact that NO-ONE would've been able to take a pic of one on their mobile phone, because no fukcer had a mobile phone in the late 70's and early 80's because they weren't available then, let alone a mobile phone with a camera!!

 

[sandymere 8,260]

6 hours ago, greg64 said:

Animal sinner or saint: The infamous circus performer who 'released big cats on Dartmoor' - Devon Live                                in the article Arry put up the ben mee confirms they were released and in this article he says he can't confirm or deny that they were released and does not mention ever seeing one  

Her husband discounted the whole tale as nonsense so likely they were sold elsewhere. She was more famous for dodgy deals and bad treatment rather than "born free types". The rumours were stated by the founder of Big cat society,  hardly independent. 

Again is it plausible? 3 half tame pumas would soon have drawn attention to themselves.

The main food source would be sheep and ponies,  enough to  feed 3 pumas might get noticed .

Even in the 70's Dartmoor was well studied by excellent naturalist and hunted, farmed by real countrymen who would soon have noted the appearance of 3 apex predators. 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by sandymere