Big Cat Sighting

[Greyman 25,234]

3 hours ago, Bush Rummager said:

Interesting! Where abouts in Derbyshire mate? Obviously i understand if you want keep it quiet untill the podcast is released. I'm on the Notts/ Derbyshire boarder. 

Those podcasts are good listening mate, I've enjoyed picking my way through them...

I don’t no anymore than that mate, will let you no more if and when I hear

[ChrisJones 7,973]

@Greyman

I was able to read your reply to me on the cat thread before it got deleted. I appreciate the sentiments, mate.

When I mentioned shaky evidence, I should probably clarify. I was generalizing. This thread is 318 pages as of this post, based on my settings. The majority of stuff that gets thrown around in the media is the shaky stuff and I tend to just gloss over it. Being as busy as I have over the last 12 months I've not really had chance to really get into the nuts and bolts of everything that's been posted but fair comment.

You posted about the podcast, and that's a new one to me. I'll try and have a listen and you also mentioned the paper that's up for peer review, as discussed with @Born Hunter many moons ago that's the text I'm really looking forward to and really interested in reading. Documentary sounds like it might be a good watch too!

Back on the local topic our local news posted an article on their website about staying safe in cat country. I'll try and post it when their site is up and running again but I know our local stuff is harder to access online due to the changes in European laws. The interesting thing, and I think it's relevant to the topic, is that there has been a huge spike in cat sightings since that viral video hit the net. That was filmed only a few hundred miles from where I'm sat. With the new interest in cats it seems everyone is spotting one all of a sudden but it does highlight the quality of evidence that's presented from the public.

The article does go on to state that cat sightings are extremely rare as they're extremely evasive around humans, and then lists the safety protocols, which are basically do the opposite of what the guy in the video did! Now that everyone is cat aware there are many reports going in to fish and game, regarding the sightings, and they're basically telling everyone to calm the f*ck down! This is in a part of the world that has a healthy and thriving cat population and despite the many cases of misidentification, there are enough reports for them to issue the safety bulletin. Flip the extremely human reaction to the UK and it wouldn't surprise me that you get a similar reaction over there with a lot of false alarms to sift through.

That's why I'm really looking forward to the paper when it's released!

Also I believe it was @MH1 that asked if any dogs were taken from yards?

We have a lot of dogs and livestock grazing locally and there are no reports of cats causing issues. Coyotes can be a problem though.

[Born Hunter 17,637]

1 hour ago, ChrisJones said:

You posted about the podcast, and that's a new one to me. I'll try and have a listen and you also mentioned the paper that's up for peer review, as discussed with @Born Hunter many moons ago that's the text I'm really looking forward to and really interested in reading. Documentary sounds like it might be a good watch too!

Same. There's a lot of 'noise' around anything like this and it makes me quite dismissive off hand. Which isn't fair because it impedes legitimate scientific discovery. I'm not saying we have a duty to spend time doing the leg work, but we do have a duty to not bother anyone that wishes to.

Greyman has educated me, and that only happened because I thought he was nuts and hung around waiting to prove it. It was humbling. Though I'm still not convinced that breeding populations of leopards, mountain lion, jaguar or lynx etc are established in the UK, that hasn't changed, but I am now much less dismissive of those who are working on it.

I haven't really paid this thread much attention in quite a while because it's all 'noise'. Anecdotal stuff and endless rally of opinions. Which is of course where science starts, it's how hypotheses are formed and then research begins. What I'm saying is, I haven't the energy to follow all the noise, but when if ever the real meaty research is released, even if it's not conclusive (these things often take many steps) then I'll be back and intrigued.

In the meantime, fair play to anyone who is willing to do the leg work. 

[Greyman 25,234]

1 hour ago, Born Hunter said:

Same. There's a lot of 'noise' around anything like this and it makes me quite dismissive off hand. Which isn't fair because it impedes legitimate scientific discovery. I'm not saying we have a duty to spend time doing the leg work, but we do have a duty to not bother anyone that wishes to.

Greyman has educated me, and that only happened because I thought he was nuts and hung around waiting to prove it. It was humbling. Though I'm still not convinced that breeding populations of leopards, mountain lion, jaguar or lynx etc are established in the UK, that hasn't changed, but I am now much less dismissive of those who are working on it.

I haven't really paid this thread much attention in quite a while because it's all 'noise'. Anecdotal stuff and endless rally of opinions. Which is of course where science starts, it's how hypotheses are formed and then research begins. What I'm saying is, I haven't the energy to follow all the noise, but when if ever the real meaty research is released, even if it's not conclusive (these things often take many steps) then I'll be back and intrigued.

In the meantime, fair play to anyone who is willing to do the leg work. 

Going to feel really smug about those comments today mate thank you but allow me to correct you one more time, pleasedefinitely no Jaguars, they are a very specialised hunter and would not be able to adapt and blend in, were as the other three are generalist opportunists and have the ability to adapt to pretty much every environment on the planet, glad you popped in really because I,m still not 100% sure what all this peer review business means and because of the virus have not been to the RAU to see what’s going on, but last I heard the paper was under peer review, so is that a good step forward in the over all scheme and if a grainy pic was 20% proof how would the paper stuff add to the cause if you get my simplistic meaning I,m not being ignorant if I disappear I have another boat to visit this afternoon and I,m really hoping it’s the one cheers  

[Born Hunter 17,637]

16 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Going to feel really smug about those comments today mate thank you but allow me to correct you one more time, pleasedefinitely no Jaguars, they are a very specialised hunter and would not be able to adapt and blend in, were as the other three are generalist opportunists and have the ability to adapt to pretty much every environment on the planet, glad you popped in really because I,m still not 100% sure what all this peer review business means and because of the virus have not been to the RAU to see what’s going on, but last I heard the paper was under peer review, so is that a good step forward in the over all scheme and if a grainy pic was 20% proof how would the paper stuff add to the cause if you get my simplistic meaning I,m not being ignorant if I disappear I have another boat to visit this afternoon and I,m really hoping it’s the one cheers  

Peer review is done when you have written up your research and submitted it to a journal for publication. It goes through a process called 'peer review' to make sure it is up to scratch for publication in their journal. Journals have a reputation to uphold and so they want to sort the wheat from the chaff. It's fairly self explanatory, a panel of experts (peers) read and examine the paper and decide if it's fit for publication in the journal they represent. It sounds like the work is close to being made public.

The real peer review comes after publication though, when the whole scientific community can interrogate, discuss, test and continue the authors work. Though this isn't what is meant by the term I just thought it worth mentioning.

Also, don't expect this paper to present 100% proof. It's likely just the first step, but assuming it's been submitted to a reputable journal, then it will suddenly give the topic of big cats in the UK increased credibility and depending on the findings lead to an increased effort in the field.

[Greyman 25,234]

Thanks for that born, so we are heading in the right direction and we got the girl that had her arm eaten on tiger king to appear in the documentary, double bonus

[forest of dean redneck 11,189]

Dad had a us nature Program on last night an  they showed footage of a puma that stashed its kill in a abandoned livestock pen so it could keep it from scavengers was quite interesting .

[sandymere 8,261]

Alas I've been a bit busy for a while so not had chance to post on this subject but I did manage to do a little checking on a couple of points.

One, it has been stated that there is a secret police presence that keep the myriad big cat bodies quiet and threaten people with dire consequences if they go public with finds.

So back to the hedge cutters lol. Now in real life enquiring about finding big cats is a slightly surreal subject but one I’ve asked before so Hey Ho. But suggesting that they are all under threat of the secret police if they spoke about the subject is a little embarrassing, quiet frankly a bit silly, but in the name of research I did it.  The outcome, no they have never found any feline other than common and garden moggies and as to the second theory no there isn’t a special big cat number and secret police squad to come and ghost the body and scene, in truth the suggestion was met with a little derision.  So no road kills which pretty much excludes the presence of big cats in the area they cover, basically the West Country.

Two, not being able to get host genetic material from stool samples (poo). For this I contacted a biomedical scientist, (they work in a lab), they said “There’s a lot of sloughing goes on in the bowel, may be hard to sift and you’d need to have an idea what animal you were looking for  to ensure the right target genes for PCR primers. Hmm might not be easy but would be possible”

So there would be plenty of material, from sloughing and a decent lab would be able to identify it…..

Which leaves us with no bodies, outside of conspiracy theories,  yet the norm would be around 40 to 50% of deaths would be due to roads and no poo when one would imagine even the most fastidious cat would have to have a poo..............

The bottom line is basically, in theory you can never prove something doesn't exist but I think this makes it pretty sure they don't in reality.

Edited October 22, 2020 by sandymere

[Greyman 25,234]

What a prick, round and round, what do you think your going to do prove a point by pissing people off enough they won’t debate anymore, this is from about page 5 and I have more but I,m pretty sure it’s a dead lynx shot in the uk, we were just getting back to a normal conversation and here you come again, I put a film on as well an age back and there was a 5ft long dead cat squashed on the road in England, if you want to row carry on but stop ignoring answers I,ve already given you it’s very very tiring and as I,ve just told you I will not be engaging with your good self any further until you have a proper issue to raise instead of some stupid little point scoring exercise you keep trying to engage in it’s ruining the thread just stop it

[Bobtheferret 1,224]

Can the people that have no interest that there could even be a small possibility of big cats in the uk just stop coming on this thread? Or at least just read shake your head and not comment the same stuff over and over? It’s a good interesting thread and one that should just be enjoyed for what it is. Just leave it be for gods sake your adding precisely f**k all! 

[Greb147 6,808]

10 minutes ago, Bobtheferret said:

Can the people that have no interest that there could even be a small possibility of big cats in the uk just stop coming on this thread? Or at least just read shake your head and not comment the same stuff over and over? It’s a good interesting thread and one that should just be enjoyed for what it is. Just leave it be for gods sake your adding precisely f**k all! 

The naysayers obviously have an interest on the subject or else they wouldn't be commenting on it. 

[shaaark 10,133]

9 minutes ago, Greb147 said:

The naysayers obviously have an interest on the subject or else they wouldn't be commenting on it. 

Weren't you one of the naysayers, until just a few days ago greb? 

[Daniel cain 42,843]

37 minutes ago, Bobtheferret said:

Can the people that have no interest that there could even be a small possibility of big cats in the uk just stop coming on this thread? Or at least just read shake your head and not comment the same stuff over and over? It’s a good interesting thread and one that should just be enjoyed for what it is. Just leave it be for gods sake your adding precisely f**k all! 

Well said pal

[Greb147 6,808]

25 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Weren't you one of the naysayers, until just a few days ago greb? 

I am a naysayer, doesn't mean the subject doesn't interest me though. 

I've always said that it's possible that there's been the odd escapee or released animal, I just don't believe there's breeding populations like Greyman suggests.

[Daniel cain 42,843]

14 minutes ago, Greb147 said:

I am a naysayer, doesn't mean the subject doesn't interest me though. 

I've always said that it's possible that there's been the odd escapee or released animal, I just don't believe there's breeding populations like Greyman suggests.

Honest enough answer that