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Black and tans

At least you never said Lakeys,good man.
:)

 

I remember going to a Maurice bell show in the early 80,s,when it was still held at the mart.All the usual Lakey folk where in attendance that won every show in the country and urinated on every other terrier that dared to enter the ring,the age of Lakey dominance.A couple of narrow sided,leggy,blue topped lakeys beat everything in the show and the ribbon chasers decried this whilst weeping in their beer a little further down Hawes.Thats the last time ive witnessed proper Lakeys dominating their barrel chested,short coupled,low legged cousins that went on to dominate the shows for the next decade before the Lakey bred blacks took over.The thing was the winners on that day had seen hunt service,from Silsden,the others did,nt have an hunt behind their recent lineage.

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Long gone now, got some good digging with that dog over the years.

On reading through this thread I remembered something that I read in terriers and terrier men. In the part where Maurice bell is asked "what type of terrier do you keep" his reply was " fell type lak

Nice dogs Liam and general one of my young ones just started this year

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attachicon.gifBrendans dogs 005.jpgOld type Lakeland

 

Looks nothing like an olde type Lakey,except some of the colour.Seriously if folk look at these type of pictures and imagine it represents the working lakeys that where evident less than 3 decades ago its a poor reflection on the lakey kennels now.

 

 

I'd sooner have one of Liams than a gassy bag of shit that masquerades as a lakeland these days-work ethic before rosettes any day in my book mort.atb dcattachicon.gifBlackhearts Dogs 034.jpg

 

Im a massive Lakey fan and don,t have much patience for any terrier that masquerades as anything other than a terrier,yet the mutt he depicted bore little resemblance to a olde type Lakey and thats a fact.If you quote old type depict old type and not another run of the mill working terrier that is bred towards a Lakey.If the lads mutts graft thats all that counts and ill bang his drum louder than most,its not a Lakeland more of a Lakey type.

Morton you have me confused and maybe yourself too? For a massive lakey fan is not a working strain the most important factor? You mention lakeys three decades ago which is only 30 years. To me this is when they started in some quarters to demise with the obvious influence of KC blood by prominent dog men. The shape, colour and most important working ability changed and not for the best. The new type lakey turned into the fashionable type for a lot of would be digging men?

 

I am lost as to what you consider a "true" lakeland terrier? A photo would help me understand.

If you look at the old photos of lakeland (fell) terriers pre 1900's they were non discript type of all shapes and sizes depending on the village they came from which is typical of a working strain. The "breed" club was only formed in 1912 and UK registered in 1921. Then two types existed. Working and Show types. It probably took another decade or three years for the seperation to further develop between the two types until they became quite distinct from each other with 2 world wars in between which would have inhibited any breed development.

 

Then by the time men like Middleton got their hands on old working stock from the men before him and the 1970-80's the look of the working type again took a distinct turn as noted above. But for me all the time working dog men (typical of what Liam has) infused what they felt was for the betterment of the "working" dog. So for me a dog that throws towards a lakeland type is a working lakeland. There was nothing too typical about them when the Bells had them nor now amongst proper working dog men not too caught up breeding purebred stock.

 

Working dog men have and will continue to bred-in working attributes and breed back again to the route stock. Good on Liam and Kirstydad for what looks like working lakeland types to me. Sure is not a strain a type of dog?

 

P.S. not looking for an arguement just a discussion.

I believe the only factor is a working one,with any terrier.IF you want a certain type then it should be type typical and not a sort of type.If again the only factor is graft then type is of little importance but its imperative that folk need to breed to type to hold on to the type typical terriers we grew to recognise as breeds,be that Border,Lakey,Bedlington etc.Its easy enough to breed a worker its a slog to breed a type typical one and it does matter in the bigger picture.
Wind must have changed as you normally bang on about how important fell blood is over your beddies ,or have you forgot that for now .
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I always will have a soft spot for a Lakeland but the reality is they're few and far between in the surrounding circle and further afield that I know off. Kirsty's Dad I was the same with my aul dog, couldn't find a decent b&t bitch for him and it never happened. Could have put him over a decent black bitch I had back then, but I was true to the type so I didn't bother, something I'll always wonder how it would have went, but I made my bed so I'll lie in it. The ironic thing was the black bitch I had was from a good line, so that could been a good mating with things to come. Ive seen a few Lakeland bitches work in my time, nothing I'd feed or think highly off, just my own experience. Suppose the same could be said off any types..Black, Russell's, Borders etc. Without decent grafting bitches that produce you have nothing. Only half of that won't cut the mustard in the long run unfortunately.

Edited by THE GENERAL
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popped along to a local show yesterday and took my young lakie now i consider him a lump he s 14.5 tts and solid but spanable but when i went in the lakie dog class he was the smallest one in there it was full of huge 17in dogs that had clearly never done a days work in there life most could only work the channel tunnel and then they couldnt get near a fox

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attachicon.gifBrendans dogs 005.jpgOld type Lakeland

Looks nothing like an olde type Lakey,except some of the colour.Seriously if folk look at these type of pictures and imagine it represents the working lakeys that where evident less than 3 decades ago its a poor reflection on the lakey kennels now.

 

 

 

 

I'd sooner have one of Liams than a gassy bag of shit that masquerades as a lakeland these days-work ethic before rosettes any day in my book mort.atb dcattachicon.gifBlackhearts Dogs 034.jpg

Im a massive Lakey fan and don,t have much patience for any terrier that masquerades as anything other than a terrier,yet the mutt he depicted bore little resemblance to a olde type Lakey and thats a fact.If you quote old type depict old type and not another run of the mill working terrier that is bred towards a Lakey.If the lads mutts graft thats all that counts and ill bang his drum louder than most,its not a Lakeland more of a Lakey type.

 

 

Morton you have me confused and maybe yourself too? For a massive lakey fan is not a working strain the most important factor? You mention lakeys three decades ago which is only 30 years. To me this is when they started in some quarters to demise with the obvious influence of KC blood by prominent dog men. The shape, colour and most important working ability changed and not for the best. The new type lakey turned into the fashionable type for a lot of would be digging men?

 

I am lost as to what you consider a "true" lakeland terrier? A photo would help me understand.

If you look at the old photos of lakeland (fell) terriers pre 1900's they were non discript type of all shapes and sizes depending on the village they came from which is typical of a working strain. The "breed" club was only formed in 1912 and UK registered in 1921. Then two types existed. Working and Show types. It probably took another decade or three years for the seperation to further develop between the two types until they became quite distinct from each other with 2 world wars in between which would have inhibited any breed development.

 

Then by the time men like Middleton got their hands on old working stock from the men before him and the 1970-80's the look of the working type again took a distinct turn as noted above. But for me all the time working dog men (typical of what Liam has) infused what they felt was for the betterment of the "working" dog. So for me a dog that throws towards a lakeland type is a working lakeland. There was nothing too typical about them when the Bells had them nor now amongst proper working dog men not too caught up breeding purebred stock.

 

Working dog men have and will continue to bred-in working attributes and breed back again to the route stock. Good on Liam and Kirstydad for what looks like working lakeland types to me. Sure is not a strain a type of dog?

 

P.S. not looking for an arguement just a discussion.

 

I believe the only factor is a working one,with any terrier.IF you want a certain type then it should be type typical and not a sort of type.If again the only factor is graft then type is of little importance but its imperative that folk need to breed to type to hold on to the type typical terriers we grew to recognise as breeds,be that Border,Lakey,Bedlington etc.Its easy enough to breed a worker its a slog to breed a type typical one and it does matter in the bigger picture.

 

 

I understand what you are saying but do not 100% agree with it. Yes work is the only factor no matter what the type is.

 

I believe fells be they a Red Fell, Black Fell, B&T Lakeland, Red Lakeland, Patterdale are all types or strains of somewhat orignal stock? Be that a long time ago.

 

I agree IF you want a type that try to bred to the best of that type available - if available.

 

But as work is the most important factor I would happliy breed a B&T Lakeland to any of the above types. I wouldnt breed a russell to a lakeland as for some reason that would be alien to me. Border/ Lakeland cross would be also OK to me.

 

If lads like busterdog and kirstydad still have the working type lakelands they would be worth preserving. As before if a litter was bred and you got tan, B&T, or nowadays black then just keep back to B&T's and breed back to root stock. Another thing is to spread out the line to decent lads with shared interest as the breeder to help keep things going as being a one man show never works unless you like keeping a hoard of animals all with limited work under them.

Edited by Roger Kint
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My old Fell bitch, from many moons ago

 

shareimage20170717_100143.jpg

grand bitch her eddy-hope youre keeping well.

Alls good here lad. Nice to hear from you. Was down your way few weeks ago for a few jars. Had some mighty craic. Hope alls good your end?

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