What Adds More Drive Into A Lurcher Beddy Or Collie?

[FUJI 16,242]

Anyways f**k all these big macho crosses,get a Pom & breed Pom x Whippets,they will open your eyes for sure ?

 

Rabbit population will never be the same ?

[billhardy 2,341]

 

Malinois to me are a good and better option than most modern collies for Lurcher breeding ,I see them has a herder like the vast variety of collies ,if one does not desire the Knpv type malls there's the alternative the kc,now here we have do we use the tested animal bred for work or the kc that might do abit of light agility etc. The choice his there for all breeders who would wish to breed a litter .i know this the kc malls I have experience of there hybrids with greys are not has tough when bred the harder version.knpv malls it's just that like some stallions they posses more fire in em and take that bit more knowledgable capable handling if one don't posses these attributes leave well alone.and for being bit when in training I think that question already been answered, think of the vast majority of other herding type of none indigenous stock there's been plenty of them some documented some not.atb bunnys.

Have those kc line bred dogs produced anything decent bunnys? Surely there must be a middle ground between Knpv & kc stuff? Or not as the case may be.....

. The kc stuff I seen are ok but depends what one wants from the mall they seem very similar to collie types with out the mental traumas some collie types can suffer with fa me when breeding I go. With the very best available bloodlines matter and a mediocre Knpv will always be streets ahead of a kc type .neva been a man fa pure livestock ,everything's better fa a xes now and then just my view.the kc type do seem to be smaller which may suit those looking fa something that bit smaller and I have no doubt they will produce good serviceable lurchers at one discipline or maybe more.like anything individuality his what it his. This small bitch would go well with a non ped whipp she maybe only thirty eight pound herself rabbit dogs that crash cover .and maybe swim and like teeth who knows but the ingredients would be there.atbbunnys.

[billhardy 2,341]

 

Bill,you've had a long night writing all these posts fella,christ you ain't slept lol going by the times you've been posting haha...Don't do what i do & let this place grind you down,go have a few hours kip,recharge your batteries & come back with all guns blazing

 

 

@ Fuji...

 

I think we have all been guilty of staying up too late and getting ourselves embroiled in senseless argument,...it is part and parcel of being passionate about the dogs.

It is always a shame when an interesting debate/discussion gets ruined, by bringing personalities into the conversation,..but, once again, that is the t'Internet..

The original poster was only asking about drive in a lurcher and whether or not other enthusiasts favored, a collie or a bedlington ?

Hardly controversial, a simple harmless question,..with an easily provided answer,..and mostly down,.. to personal preference...

 

Anyway,..another day dawns,..and another chat to enjoy,..and hopefully to learn from...

 

Personally,..I have no prejudice towards any type of running dog hybrid,...I like them all,...but,..as a rabbiter,.I would have no need for anything special,...to own such a phenomenal beast would simply be a criminal waste,..so I stick with my wee Collie curs.

Obviously,..when I have a walk out with younger, keener,more committed lads and see their fabulous dogs 'in action',..I do feel a bit of a div,..but there ya go,..

 

We do, what we do,...it is, what it is...

 

I think its good that lads who fancy to improve their lurcher types , go for it...

As hunting men we should always be striving to produce a better type, than the one before.

This is an easy concept for most thinking men to grasp,...no need for others to criticise them and definitely, no need for them to become defensive, simply because others do not agree with them...

 

Years ago,..I tried to produce dogs for my own use, by breeding, from a little known type of herding canine,...(fairly rare in the UK ),...and to say that I was ridiculed and admonished by folk, would be an understatement But,..I stuck to my guns and for a few years, I owned what I wanted,....so,...to anyone who wishes to do the same and breed something different, I would only wish them well....and try to remain focused,...and chilled...

 

Each to their own...

 

an old friend I occasionally have a night or two with runs a f1cattle dog grey first season animal .atbbunnys.

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

The REASON,..I stopped using that particular type was because my original hybrids, bred off Imported working stock (from 1980s) were done and dusted,..Kaput

 

Subsequent imports, from Australia and other countries,...were not to my taste,...I did not see any that showed working/herding capabilities...(herding, as most folk know, is simply a sublimated form of hunting)...and at the time, I was full on at the rabbiting job,..so I needed good solid hunting dogs that could travel well and not get themselves needlessly knocked up...Obviously,...folk that came after ,...fancied giving the cross a fair go and seemingly used, whatever KC reg examples that were available...

It is a bit like the Malinois and obviously the bull bloods,...ya gotta seek out the right lines,...or it is often a heart breaking waste of time...

 

For me now,.as an OAP,..time is precious,..so I prefer to breed quick, clever wee rabbiting curs for the hedgerow job,...they ain't nothing special,..but for ferreting/mouching,.they sure fit the bill...

 

Proper old man's dogs,..

Edited April 18, 2017 by Phil Lloyd

[troyboy17 631]

Nice dogs phill how are they bred

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

Bitsas fellah,...a bit of Sheepdog, bit of Whippet and a smidgen of good old Greyhound...'net guarders and ditch hunters',...a rabbiting terrier might have done the same job...

 

I can't use a proper jukel,.so,...these wee mouching curs will have to see me out...

[jeemes 3,491]

Drive as far as running dogs goes in my eyes is the effort to come to terms with the quarry, I've never seen it but I've heard Collie crosses can pick their runs which is a massive no no for me.

You are one of a very few people on here Ive heard talk about gameness in its proper sense. Gameness can only be expressed by a dog or any animal when it is loosing its battle on all fronts and there are no obvious ways forward. Like the man who was asked if his dog was game..he replied I dont know hes too good at winning.. This applies to all forms of hunting with dogs. We dont breed them to fight,we breed them to take quarry.To overcome it in weight and/or number.

Having said that its obvious that dogs that are crossed with game blood will have more chance of being game and having a higher pain threshold than dogs that are not. Drive is I agree with you a different quality that is present in lots of breeds.

To come back to the thread question I would say strains are far more important than breeds, Collie or Beddy.

[terryd 8,024]

I all ways thought drive was the the desire to get to grips with any quarry about. Rat rabbit what ever. Not some thing I have ever thought of before. Most my old dogs were keen but they weren't mad keen. The dog I have now seems to have drive to spare as far as the enthusiasm goes and the urge to hunt. He is a 110% committed to catching stuff. If he had a dial I could afford to turn it down a click or two as at the end of the day I just want him to mark and lamp the odd rabbit. Not take out any quarry within a two mile radius

 

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by terryd

[iworkwhippets 12,247]

just the1 dog at my side now, but more than pleased with her performance, beddy greyhound x whippet,

[iworkwhippets 12,247]

73 next month, happy as pigs in shit, got myself a decent little rabbiter , wife keeps asking me , what do you want for your birthday, nowt is my reply, ive got it all

[iworkwhippets 12,247]

thanks for looking

[billhardy 2,341]

The REASON,..I stopped using that particular type was because my original hybrids, bred off Imported working stock (from 1980s) were done and dusted,..Kaput

 

Subsequent imports, from Australia and other countries,...were not to my taste,...I did not see any that showed working/herding capabilities...(herding, as most folk know, is simply a sublimated form of hunting)...and at the time, I was full on at the rabbiting job,..so I needed good solid hunting dogs that could travel well and not get themselves needlessly knocked up...Obviously,...folk that came after ,...fancied giving the cross a fair go and seemingly used, whatever KC reg examples that were available...

It is a bit like the Malinois and obviously the bull bloods,...ya gotta seek out the right lines,...or it is often a heart breaking waste of time...

 

For me now,.as an OAP,..time is precious,..so I prefer to breed quick, clever wee rabbiting curs for the hedgerow job,...they ain't nothing special,..but for ferreting/mouching,.they sure fit the bill...[/. Nice little curs types those the type has youngsters we started offa with and the young wee fellas keep round by me ,I don't worry to much about age mr Lloyd age just a number ,,I ain't got ta wait to long fa pension job lol the cattle dog xes don't know much about his lines but he f1 and taking to terrier work ok .life his what it his and enjoy it I'll be gone in the next hour checking the the heads on the local estate.lol.no rest fa the young .atb bunnys.

 

Proper old man's dogs,..

 

[Casso 1,256]

For the subject matter of Drive what your really talking about is Heart,

 

How much does the dog want it, in every sense it comes down a willing to make contact with whatever the object of desire may be

 

Funny enough the test of heart is relatively the same in two completely different dogs, with a running dog how much physical difficulty can he overcome and still want to give chase and with the pit is he willing to scratch/ make contact after shipping an amount of physical hardship

 

The simple gesture of movement under duress is what defines heart /gameness / drive

[roybo 2,873]

I think the physical effort part is right ,but the pain and chance of death differentiates maybe gameness from drive.

But I suppose it's all relative to the comparison you are making

[springfield 20]

For the subject matter of Drive what your really talking about is Heart,

 

How much does the dog want it, in every sense it comes down a willing to make contact with whatever the object of desire may be

 

Funny enough the test of heart is relatively the same in two completely different dogs, with a running dog how much physical difficulty can he overcome and still want to give chase and with the pit is he willing to scratch/ make contact after shipping an amount of physical hardship

 

The simple gesture of movement under duress is what defines heart /gameness / drive

So which of the 2 breeds in question do you think offers this