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Interchangeable Barrels


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Dear All

I could do with a little advice as I am now the proud owner of an FAC for 17HMR and .22LR. I have been looking at what you all use in these calibers and surprised to see a lot of CZ,s which I have also been looking at. They appeal to me for price, looks and also popularity. However, what I would like to know is what is the difference between the models such as 452, 455 etc, etc. I also need to understand why I don't see many interchangeable barrel models being used and is that a normal set up would be to have two separate guns in the cabinet rather than one and two barrels. Any advice would be useful before I go and spen my hard earned.

 

Thanks for all your help advance.

 

Colin

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Can't go wrong with a CZ IMO. The 455 is a later version of the 452. Not a great deal of difference between them, but arguably the 452 is better made.

 

There are guns that you can change barrels on, but are usually very expensive and I can't see the point really. Each time you change the barrel, you would need to re-zero your scope for the different calibre you are using.

 

2 separate guns is the norm. Yes.

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I've not had my fac long , and have got 455 in both cal , 17 and 22lr , I can't compare them with any thing else , but I'm well pleased with mine

And I've found both rifles to be dead accurate

And same as walshie has said , don't think I could be done with changing barrells over and a re zero

I do,know one thing tho , your going to enjoy your self no matter what you choose

Atb and Good luck

Dave

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I've not had my fac long , and have got 455 in both cal , 17 and 22lr , I can't compare them with any thing else , but I'm well pleased with mine

And I've found both rifles to be dead accurate

And same as walshie has said , don't think I could be done with changing barrells over and a re zero

I do,know one thing tho , your going to enjoy your self no matter what you choose

Atb and Good luck

Dave

Thanks Dave and to you Walshie for the advice. I did not consider the re zeroing of the scopes after changing barrels and certainly could not be done with having to go through the process of doing so. Thank you for saving me the grief. I will now leave that idea out of the equation. The CZ is going to be high on the list unless any one has other comments tat may make a change.

 

Real big thanks again to you both

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If you invest in the barrel swap idea it does work and it doesn't need to be much hassle.

 

A guy I used to shoot with until fairly recently had a sako quad with lr, hmr and wmr barrels.

 

He invested in a decent picatinny rail and mounts, fitted his scope and hmr barrel (most commonly used) zeroed it and then reset his turrets (MTC mamba scope in this case)

 

Not really anything any of us don't do with any new gun or gun that needs setting up.

 

When he wanted to change cal, scope mounts were whipped off the rail (he got qr ones rather than Allen bolt ones) tool went in barrel out, new barrel in, scope back on and then the scope was dialed to the zero for the new barrel using the marks on the turret (for an example I think his 80yd zero on the lr was up 16 clicks and left 4 or something like that from his hmr and turret zero.)

 

It worked well for him, very well. Was it a bit of a faff? Compared to picking up another gun and just shooting it yes, it possibly was but the swap didn't take long, probably not much difference between putting one gun away in the bag, getting the next one out of the bag and loading mags. We never timed it but I would say that it could easily be done in sub 90 seconds.

 

As for repeatability, it was never more than a click or two out... 1/4 to 1/2" at 100 yards. That's still a rabbits head on a good day and it's a body shot bunny all day long on pretty much any day of the week in any conditions.

 

 

As I said, you really need to invest in the concept. Put a rail on it because you will never get the repeatability out of a dovetail rail. Get qr mounts (and push the back mount back and front mount forwards so the scope goes back in the exact same place).

 

The beauty of this is you only have one barreled action in the cabinet, one scope, one nv kit, one rifle bag, one mod, one sling and just a couple of extra barrels and mags so on paper it does cost more but it probably costs less to invest fully in the quad system than it does to buy a pair of new cz's, 2 sets of decent mounts, 2 scopes, 2 slings, 2 mods, 2 bags and then still potentially have to piss about refocusing nv add ons to the other scope.

 

 

Me personally, I'd always have 2 rifles - but the barrel swapping system can and does work, it just didn't become fashionable imho because you can pick up cz rifles that are just as accurate at a price that means buying 2 complete guns isn't a massive expense (compared to buying 2 sako's, Annie's or similar.)

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I've not had my fac long , and have got 455 in both cal , 17 and 22lr , I can't compare them with any thing else , but I'm well pleased with mine

And I've found both rifles to be dead accurate

And same as walshie has said , don't think I could be done with changing barrells over and a re zero

I do,know one thing tho , your going to enjoy your self no matter what you choose

Atb and Good luck

Dave

Thanks Dave and to you Walshie for the advice. I did not consider the re zeroing of the scopes after changing barrels and certainly could not be done with having to go through the process of doing so. Thank you for saving me the grief. I will now leave that idea out of the equation. The CZ is going to be high on the list unless any one has other comments tat may make a change.

 

Real big thanks again to you both

 

The idea of swapping barrels and changing zeros on the scope(s) is a bad one, it only really works with Blaser fullbore rifles practically speaking.

 

As the others have said, get one of each and the 452 is a bit better made and finished than the 455 IME.

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The idea of swapping barrels and changing zeros on the scope(s) is a bad one, it only really works with Blaser fullbore rifles practically speaking.

 

Well, no.

 

It works on a quad as well. It's what it was designed for by people a lot more clued up on rifles than you or I and if you invest in the system it works. The oversight in their plan was to have a dovetail for flexibility (or cost cutting?) than a pair of bases or a picatinny rail.

 

You could always have a scope and mounts zeroed for each barrel if you don't trust the repeatability of your scope adjustment.

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The idea of swapping barrels and changing zeros on the scope(s) is a bad one, it only really works with Blaser fullbore rifles practically speaking.

 

Well, no.

 

It works on a quad as well. It's what it was designed for by people a lot more clued up on rifles than you or I and if you invest in the system it works. The oversight in their plan was to have a dovetail for flexibility (or cost cutting?) than a pair of bases or a picatinny rail.

 

You could always have a scope and mounts zeroed for each barrel if you don't trust the repeatability of your scope adjustment.

 

 

You COULD yes, but what a faff having to make your gun before you go out. Me, I prefer to go to my cabinet and select the best gun for what I'm doing that day/night. No screwdrivers involved. :D

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The idea of swapping barrels and changing zeros on the scope(s) is a bad one, it only really works with Blaser fullbore rifles practically speaking.

 

Well, no.

 

It works on a quad as well. It's what it was designed for by people a lot more clued up on rifles than you or I and if you invest in the system it works. The oversight in their plan was to have a dovetail for flexibility (or cost cutting?) than a pair of bases or a picatinny rail.

 

You could always have a scope and mounts zeroed for each barrel if you don't trust the repeatability of your scope adjustment.

 

 

You've not used a Sako quad then... :D

 

The scope of the quad goes on the action, necessitating buggering about with scope adjustments which is all fine in theory but in practice may be forgotten, or turrets may be knocked, or whatever. There also exists the possibility of slight misalignment of the barrel because there needs to be a tolerance built in to allow the quick change. If any or all of this then results in a wounded beast the risk is unacceptable to my mind as a sportsman.

 

The Blaser system uses very well made precision mounts that attach directly to the barrel and come back to zero every time. You can further dedicate one scope to one barrel as funds allow which is the ultimate in belt and braces to the issue of the zero.

 

This is why the Blaser system works better than the Sauer system which although very well engineered to tight tolerance still suffers from the disadvantage of the scope being mounted to the action rather than the barrel and does not have anything like the same ease of swapping the barrel as the Blaser.

 

So having actually used the various systems on the market, in my opinion the Blaser is the only completely reliable one and complete reliability is something I insist on in a rifle used on live quarry.

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complete reliability is something I insist on in a rifle used on live quarry.

Did you ever cure that ropey wmr you bought then or is it just for plates / paper?! ;)

 

 

Well, considering the question was about rimfire use I don't really see how the sauer etc are relevant but yes, barrel mounting a scope will cure the issue but there isn't a barrel mount rimfire system on the market to my knowledge.

 

I am speaking from first hand experience of shooting the quad in question on occasion myself and shooting alongside it a couple of times a week for the best part of 18 months in 3 different cartridge sizes.

 

All I can tell you is it works. It is repeatable (or as repeatable as any rimfire can be using factory ammo) and as I said in my first post, using qr mounts and having zero'd turrets marked up for each barrel makes a calibre change easily a sub 2 minute job.

 

Think of it another way, your doing a bit of quiet ambush shooting for the last hour or two of daylight with the lr, when darkness drops in you want to use the hmr and nv. Would you rather leave a barrel and a couple of mags sitting in the boot of the car or a complete rifle?

 

There are benefits to the system, and again, as I said earlier, it's not for me but it does work IF you buy into it and tailor the gear you use with it appropriately.

 

The rifle doesn't need assembling before you take it out, it is complete when it goes back in the cabinet (unless your stuck for space then you could actually use a breakdown shotgun cabinet for it) it is no more of less likely to have the scope knocked than anything else and once again, sub 2 minute barrel changes are hardly the end of the world. Hell, it probably takes me longer than that to remember which coat I left my calls and gloves in and then track it down.

 

Again its not for me - that's why I've got a seperate lr & wmr not a quad and a spare barrel, but the system does work despite anyone's personal feelings on if they like it or not.

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complete reliability is something I insist on in a rifle used on live quarry.

Did you ever cure that ropey wmr you bought then or is it just for plates / paper?! ;)

Well, considering the question was about rimfire use I don't really see how the sauer etc are relevant but yes, barrel mounting a scope will cure the issue but there isn't a barrel mount rimfire system on the market to my knowledge.

I am speaking from first hand experience of shooting the quad in question on occasion myself and shooting alongside it a couple of times a week for the best part of 18 months in 3 different cartridge sizes.

All I can tell you is it works. It is repeatable (or as repeatable as any rimfire can be using factory ammo) and as I said in my first post, using qr mounts and having zero'd turrets marked up for each barrel makes a calibre change easily a sub 2 minute job.

Think of it another way, your doing a bit of quiet ambush shooting for the last hour or two of daylight with the lr, when darkness drops in you want to use the hmr and nv. Would you rather leave a barrel and a couple of mags sitting in the boot of the car or a complete rifle?

There are benefits to the system, and again, as I said earlier, it's not for me but it does work IF you buy into it and tailor the gear you use with it appropriately.

The rifle doesn't need assembling before you take it out, it is complete when it goes back in the cabinet (unless your stuck for space then you could actually use a breakdown shotgun cabinet for it) it is no more of less likely to have the scope knocked than anything else and once again, sub 2 minute barrel changes are hardly the end of the world. Hell, it probably takes me longer than that to remember which coat I left my calls and gloves in and then track it down.

Again its not for me - that's why I've got a seperate lr & wmr not a quad and a spare barrel, but the system does work despite anyone's personal feelings on if they like it or not.

 

 

Jax, Jax, Jax... :D

 

The WMR is being rebarrelled, expensive and perhaps questionable value in a rimfire but I like the rifle and can't in all clean conscience sell it on knowing the chamber has a problem.

 

This does raise an important point which is that the accuracy of the rifle is not what we're getting at, it's the reliability of zero.

 

The dodgy chamber means it groups at around 2" at 100 yards, not that the mean point of impact wanders as in the case with the sako Quad I had.

 

In the case of the former you just get closer or if that is not possible then you don't take the shot because you still know where the bullet is going. When the zero changes you don't know where he new point of impact is and can't correct for it.

 

I'm glad that your quad apparently held zero with barrel changes, mine didn't.

 

It would drift by an inch in a random direction when the barrel was changed. This for anrifle that was meant for headshooting bunnies was unnaceptable to me.

 

This means it is a game of chance for the OP, hopefully he gets a rifle and barrels that don't wander but that is not guaranteed.

 

The reason for bringing up the Blaser and the sauer is that these are both high quality rifles with a switch barrel system and of the two only the Blaser ( of which I have seen many examples particularly on driven boar hunts) system comes back to zero every time on every rifle I've seen shoot.

 

In short I am not arguing that switch barrel users are evil and wrong and so on, merely pouting out that in my experience the idea is better in the short than in practice unless a modicum of luck is had.

 

Best,

 

A

Edited by The Lord Flashheart
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Everyone who has a CZ swears by then, they are well built, a great no frills workhorse, saying that I tried one when looking at HMR's and didn't like it, probably me being a left hander and comparing it side by side to an Annie, HW a T-bolt and a couple of others it was discarded pretty fast, I narrowed down to a HW and a T-bolt which I ended up with and love.

I would try out a CZ in your preferred calibre get a decent scope on it to suit and use that, then if you get on with it look to get the other one, swapping barrels to me seems a ball ache which there is no need of especially when it wouldn't be any advantage cost wise.

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Everyone who has a CZ swears by then, they are well built, a great no frills workhorse, saying that I tried one when looking at HMR's and didn't like it, probably me being a left hander and comparing it side by side to an Annie, HW a T-bolt and a couple of others it was discarded pretty fast, I narrowed down to a HW and a T-bolt which I ended up with and love.

I would try out a CZ in your preferred calibre get a decent scope on it to suit and use that, then if you get on with it look to get the other one, swapping barrels to me seems a ball ache which there is no need of especially when it wouldn't be any advantage cost wise.

 

My 452 22lr is a leftie. They are out there, just not very often. I had to get mine from Scotland as it was the only one in the country.

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