Born Hunter 17,622 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 LOL, okay there's a bit of confusion here. I thought that my sentences following that one would put it into context (I should have had my attorney look at that!). Most folk seem to get pissy about ruining working breeds, not about the cruelty. The following two sentences gave that context I thought. And my "mind my own business" point wasn't a subtle dig at you, it was me explaining why I don't care about the cruelty aspect that you bring up. I care about cruelty but this particular topic I see as a bit dodgey ground, glass houses and all that, so basically I don't care. Look, my post was directed at folk that blame the showing bunch for ruining the american cocker spaniel and the manchester terrier and your post is aimed at the folk that justify breeding deformed dogs. There ain't much for us to talk about there, two different subjects. As far as im aware this is not a recorded conversation under oathe,we haven't just tapped anyone on the shoulder its just an exchange of opinions on a web forum so i dont quite follow with the " minding my own business until someones business effects mine " As far as glass houses go well if you believe you take part in cruel practises with animals then yes i guess you shouldnt be calling them....if you dont then tell it how it is i dont know why folk are so didgy around calling a spade a spade. Showing dogs on the whole is cruel and unnecessary whether its Cocker Spaniels,Manchester Terriers or Chihuahas its f****n outrageous that such needless exploitation of animals in this day and age can receive national tv coverage it should be as underground as any other such controversial practise. Although I'm happy to have a private informal conversation about anything I'm of the opinion that these days on topics like this it's best to make it very clear that frankly it's none of my business and keep it that way. Problem is too many people have an opinion on everyone else and what they do. Too many folks think they know best and are happy to see someone they disagree with suffer for it. Minding my own business is a fairly simple approach to not being a part of these witch hunts, no matter my opinions. Plenty of folk on seeing a damp and dirty dog with it's head down and it's eyes barely open after a long shift in the field think that the owner is cruel, I've been told exactly that! Never mind seeing the state of a hard bitten terrier being 'fixed up' in the kennels after a hard do. And lets be honest, I'm choosing my words and examples very carefully here! The word cruelty doesn't even mean much to me anymore it's thrown around so much. There's shit I can justify and shit I can't. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mushroom 12,352 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I can't see any justification for breeding to end up with disabled dogs, same as there is no justification for purposly breeding disabled people. It's just not fuucking right!!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,196 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I get you mate, I really do but yes I will do exactly that and she can then make up her own mind......and hopefully that's another win for working dogs in the long run Fair enough my parenting approach was more " dont cross the road with your eyes shut " because i thought it made more sense than saying " try it and make your own mind up " ........only messing mate who am i to say whats right and wrong Haha, she is 13 going on 30 so I'll get you round and you can tell her what she is and isn't doing !! Lol.........one thing I have learned with women, you normally have to let them find out the hard way.......my only purpose is finance and transport ! Lol 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,621 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Although I'm happy to have a private informal conversation about anything I'm of the opinion that these days on topics like this it's best to make it very clear that frankly it's none of my business and keep it that way. Problem is too many people have an opinion on everyone else and what they do. Too many folks think they know best and are happy to see someone they disagree with suffer for it. Minding my own business is a fairly simple approach to not being a part of these witch hunts, no matter my opinions. Plenty of folk on seeing a damp and dirty dog with it's head down and it's eyes barely open after a long shift in the field think that the owner is cruel, I've been told exactly that! Never mind seeing the state of a hard bitten terrier being 'fixed up' in the kennels after a hard do. And lets be honest, I'm choosing my words and examples very carefully here! The word cruelty doesn't even mean much to me anymore it's thrown around so much. There's shit I can justify and shit I can't. Whether its your business or not that doesnt stop you having an opinion and voicing it like i say your not under oathe you don't need your brief its just a natter on a forum and after all if a person really wants to mind their business they don't comment to begin with......a man only has himself to justify his actions to that i agree......but occasionally we have to stand up and be counted,ive had too many fingers pointed at me over too many years to sit all submissive and be called cruel by people who dedicate a big part of their life to cruelty......and thats what a lot of these show people are doing it just so happens to have the Queens approval so its alright. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,621 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I had a pop at someone the other day for calling my dog skinny/underweight etc (he's just over 35kg and build wise is pure, lean muscle). She stood there in-front of other people in the park yelling I was cruel, whilst holding some poor, screaming, fat fuucking excuse of a dog, seemingly panting it's last. the temp was only about 14degrees ffs :laugh: To be fair most in the park told her she was a complete moron, with one bloke offering to help her slim her dog down with a few proper walks :laugh: What boils my piss is it is always all these pedigree owners, with fat shit excuses of dogs, who chirp shoite. Its always amazed me how the Rspca will stop and question you about an underweight dog but drive straight past a dog thats obese.....what does that tell you about our society ! 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mushroom 12,352 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I get you mate, I really do but yes I will do exactly that and she can then make up her own mind......and hopefully that's another win for working dogs in the long run Fair enough my parenting approach was more " dont cross the road with your eyes shut " because i thought it made more sense than saying " try it and make your own mind up " ........only messing mate who am i to say whats right and wrong Haha, she is 13 going on 30 so I'll get you round and you can tell her what she is and isn't doing !! Lol.........one thing I have learned with women, you normally have to let them find out the hard way.......my only purpose is finance and transport ! Lol Got me one of them too 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
downsouth 6,818 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Good post that Born I've said the same thing before about working/show lines, if the breed is valued as a worker it won't die out no matter what the show fraternity does. As for the Crufts hate well I have to say I find it a bit weird seeing a load of talking points and propaganda from animal rights groups being parroted on a hunting forum. 2 good threads on this post , suppose what gets people backs up , is the breed they like as a pet or worker , cannot function / work for what it was bred for in the 1st place. have not watched the program , as i seen with my own eyes even back in the 80s how some breeds had been ruined by the KC and there description of what a breed of dog should be now, not as what the breed was when 1st bred .Take 2 breeds of to day , the bullmastiff which was my breed in the 80s, they are bred to big ,no agilty, and lost there sharp temp , for what they were bred for, a night dog for a keeper, there couldn't do it now , very unhealthy breed of dog . the other the gsd are just fooked up wreaks physically and poor temps to day. i f you want a well bred gsd you have go and get them from E/Europe lines, thats bred to work ,most are army dogs , that have got good temps bold dogs and healthy , the hips HD is alot lower in this dogs than any other gsd's . it just a good job that there people out there that want a dog to do what it was bred for, the KC got lot to answer for with its attitude to dogs . i went into lurchers as wanted a dog that was healthy, good do a job if needed, nice temps, long lived , andn ot break the bank to buy like ped dogs will do to day, you carnt beat a good x breed or good old mongrel Ray you do not have to get a dog from Eastern European lines if you want a decent Shepherd in fact Eastern European Shepherds are completely unsuitable for 90% of owners Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 3,961 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 All of them dogs in the final couldn't do the job they where initially bred for , which shows the harm these people have done to every breed / type they touch !! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hender 39 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Nothing wrong with crufts. If it really upsets you watching don't watch and then it won't annoy you. It doesnt upset me it just pisses me off that the breeding of deformed unhealthy animals for the human ego is promoted by organisations that claim to care for animals.....thats bad enough in itself but putting it on the telly is taking the piss ! Spot on comment mate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hender 39 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Interesting documentary on Youtube about pedigree dogs and the show fraternity,worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqtgIVOJOGc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hender 39 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Here is something that annoys me,if you get talking to someone when out with the dog and they ask about your lurcher etc. if you ever mention you work your dog you can see the look of disgust in their eyes as if you are some sort of monster.But its acceptable in their eyes for them walking around with their inbred mutant dog that they probably paid a grand for,gets limited time out on the lead and is fed a diet of processed crap food.You hear loads of scare mongering stories about dogs used for coursing game and so on in the media i don't see many stories about the health problems in dogs from obesity or the genetic problems in some lines of pedigree dogs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,172 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Interesting documentary on Youtube about pedigree dogs and the show fraternity,worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqtgIVOJOGc I tried to watch this, but got so angry I couldn't watch it all. As for the question of cruelty: how can any sane person possibly compare correct hunting practices with the cruelty involved in deliberately breeding dogs who suffer agony because their skulls are too small for their brains? 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hender 39 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Interesting documentary on Youtube about pedigree dogs and the show fraternity,worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqtgIVOJOGc I tried to watch this, but got so angry I couldn't watch it all. As for the question of cruelty: how can any sane person possibly compare correct hunting practices with the cruelty involved in deliberately breeding dogs who suffer agony because their skulls are too small for their brains? It is a sad documentary but i think more people should watch it and see how messed up some of the dogs are , i think a lot of people don't know how bad Crufts is i didn't know much about it myself until i watched that documentary.Since then I've done a bit of reading on some of the genetic problems these dogs have,its shocking that it is allowed to go on to be honest.Crufts originally started from the eugenics movement, a bit like Nazism but applied to dogs,all a bit weird if you ask me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeniseBrophy 42 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I acquired a 2 year old kc cavalier king charles spaniel with history winning grandparents at crafts from a girl I worked with who could know longer look after him.the health problems that became apparent where heart reaching as the kc interbreeding to produce a face suitable for SHOW was pushing it's brain into its spinal column along with mitral valve heart problems but and here is the but a friend of mine who owned lurchers and a terrier encouraged Charlie to an earth I was proud of its impulse and intent to work alongside side the terrier but extremely saddened at the detriment of health the kc encourage.I own a lurcher and would not endorse promote or purchase a kc dog and that opinion is from basic care of a dogs welfare . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
C556 351 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 If someone tells me they're interested in getting a dog, I tell them if you want a dog to work get one off working stock; if you want a dog as a pet, get one from the pound. They rarely listen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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