Creating A New Line Of Working Terrier?

[THE GENERAL 1,975]

Two full brothers, a few years back that I dug over on many occasions. What's in them ?

Edited February 22, 2017 by THE GENERAL

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

Two full brothers, a few years back that I dug over on many occasions. What's in them ?

miniture pincer cross staffy lol

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

Staffy x Lakeland. Top one has a chest and head like a Staff. And bottom one looks like a Lakey.

[tinytiger 822]

Russell/border/patterdale?

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

scans.jpg

scans 005.jpg

Much were they a pup!!!

 

the bitches were always pre-booked by terrier man that were involved with a couple of hunts, some dogs were given to mates and if there was anything left they would be sold for £25 in the echo, met some decent lads from liverpool that took them, not much for a working pup in the 90's, the stud cost me more than that, it would be nice to see you make an effort to contribute to a thread with something positive but then you would of had to of actually of worked a terrier not sat here criticising lads that have, WM

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

 

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

scans.jpg

scans 005.jpg

Much were they a pup!!!

the bitches were always pre-booked by terrier man that were involved with a couple of hunts, some dogs were given to mates and if there was anything left they would be sold for £25 in the echo, met some decent lads from liverpool that took them, not much for a working pup in the 90's, the stud cost me more than that, it would be nice to see you make an effort to contribute to a thread with something positive but then you would of had to of actually of worked a terrier not sat here criticising lads that have, WM

do you still have any Russell's that work below the sod?

[THE GENERAL 1,975]

Patterdale/Russel they where, might have been Border in the mix somewhere back for all I know.

Edited February 23, 2017 by THE GENERAL

[dillydog 8,414]

Adding beagle to russell blood is nothing new, it was happening around here before I started. It was before my time so I never got to see them work either, I can ask a few old boys later how they went, the lad that did the mating blew his head off over women problems so no chance of asking him without a Ouija board.

Was it women or was it the outcross would be my first question !

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

 

So if they work like a russel but noses are exceptional, are you say russels have shit noses?

No, I have owned a few with decent noses but the Plummer being bred through the beagle certainly has better scenting ability on a live hot trail, WM

 

So basically adding beagle brought nothing a digging terrier needs as all digging terriers have good noses otherwise the wouldn't find there quarry underground

 

So you are saying any improvement in nose is not a positive step ?? so every terrier you have seen worked did so on scent because I have been out with quite a few lads whose terriers had no nose (scenting ability)

 

take this terrier "GRIP" well known in our area and one of the first terriers I used over a Plummer to improve size and conformity he had no scenting ability and yet accounted for hundreds of fox, etc, due to his drive, he was annoying at times, he would enter every earth and rely on bumping into stuff, bushing he would travel every run in cover and yet still caught plenty, a hard terrier that liked a bit of pain and improved my terriers no end, seemed to take the best from both parents, I have also seen a Plummer without scenting ability so its not a given that they all have good nose, my mate bought a Plummer dog off Curtis Price in the 90's that worked the same as "GRIP" just relying on hard work, he had to be retired aged 5yrs as he never knew what was in an earth and bumped into a lot of stuff you shouldn't. Like the Generals pic above the resulting litter from "GRIP" and my first Plummer bitch produced litter siblings with no physical characteristics alike but if bred on would produce types that could look like both breeds depending on what they were lined with, see below

 

there were 3 pups and no 2 looked the same,these were the 2 I kept back for me and my brother, the dog on the right worked as good as anything I've ever been out with or seen, 13"TTS, great looking terrier and hated fox, all the pups had a great nose from the Plummer, WM

[MOLE265 792]

 

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

scans.jpg

scans 005.jpg

Much were they a pup!!!

the bitches were always pre-booked by terrier man that were involved with a couple of hunts, some dogs were given to mates and if there was anything left they would be sold for £25 in the echo, met some decent lads from liverpool that took them, not much for a working pup in the 90's, the stud cost me more than that, it would be nice to see you make an effort to contribute to a thread with something positive but then you would of had to of actually of worked a terrier not sat here criticising lads that have, WM

Much does it cost to purchase one of your Plummers.

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

 

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

scans.jpg

scans 005.jpg

Much were they a pup!!!

the bitches were always pre-booked by terrier man that were involved with a couple of hunts, some dogs were given to mates and if there was anything left they would be sold for £25 in the echo, met some decent lads from liverpool that took them, not much for a working pup in the 90's, the stud cost me more than that, it would be nice to see you make an effort to contribute to a thread with something positive but then you would of had to of actually of worked a terrier not sat here criticising lads that have, WM

Much does it cost to purchase one of your Plummers.

dont forget hunting life discount

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

 

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

scans.jpg

scans 005.jpg

Much were they a pup!!!

the bitches were always pre-booked by terrier man that were involved with a couple of hunts, some dogs were given to mates and if there was anything left they would be sold for £25 in the echo, met some decent lads from liverpool that took them, not much for a working pup in the 90's, the stud cost me more than that, it would be nice to see you make an effort to contribute to a thread with something positive but then you would of had to of actually of worked a terrier not sat here criticising lads that have, WM

what was the best cross to breed with , Russell, patt, border, lakey or bull blood?

[Plucky1 1,119]

Len, I was as green as grass when I bred that first litter and I would say that I was also lucky with the outcome, there were only lads that worked terriers back in the 60's or 70's and I don't ever recall seeing any of the known breeds of terrier as a pet, lads that worked them were in a very small minority and the only lads you met worked them hard, there were no terrier shows as there weren't any game fairs,etc, so I'd say the percentages % of breeding a worker were stacked in my favour, barring something genetic like "cleft palette", some were too hard for my liking and were moved on to lads that were into that style of dog. Things started to change in the 80's when unemployment was high, lads that had never been in a field in their lives bought terriers and lurchers to give them a cheap hobby and occupy some time, the shows started and clubs were formed, places I had been hunting since a kid were being overrun by lads travelling in without a care for either land owner or stock, my mate "JOE and "Westy" formed the wigan club and "George Hardie" ran the Llangollen show, these were very popular with lads travelling in from all over the country and although many good friends were made from all over the country ( some I still have now). There were plenty that never worked them but just showed, winners were bred with winners without a care for working and that was the slippery slope that has been the ruination of many a breed of terrier, people like "Plummer" trying to find fame trying to reinvent a "Modern Terrier" never helped either.

I think if I was starting off now I would find identify what you want both in work, conformation and type, find the best bitch you could afford or beg with at least 4 generations of known sire and dam, work her to make sure she is up to what you want, then find a dog to sire pups of similar breeding also of known parentage, then come on here and everyone will call you a "peddler" LOL's, seriously now, place the pups that you cannot keep with mates that will work them and then you have the start of something to improve upon, we should "ALL" be looking to breed better than we have now and are happy with and always strive for better, better,better, F.D. and myself and a few others may of had our differences in the past but I respect the time and effort put in by men looking to keep the best no matter what the breed, WM

[tinytiger 822]

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

So if they work like a russel but noses are exceptional, are you say russels have shit noses?

No, I have owned a few with decent noses but the Plummer being bred through the beagle certainly has better scenting ability on a live hot trail, WM

So basically adding beagle brought nothing a digging terrier needs as all digging terriers have good noses otherwise the wouldn't find there quarry underground

i dont know about that-wanting to find the game has a lot to do with it id say.

[foxbolter 447]

a beagle as a better nose than a terrier? I'm not convinced I'm of the impression that dogs have the same scenting ability as each other breed wouldn't be a issue.I believe it's the desire the dog has to hunt what it wants to hunt. a terrier would hunt a warm scent but wouldn't have the desire to hunt a colder or weaker scent it's not in most of their making but it doesn't mean that one has a better nose than the another.

Edited February 23, 2017 by foxbolter