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Dogs heart and lungs are not developed until 18months to 2years. Over exertion can not only cause physical but also mental damage. Pups should do no more than play run. Being pushed to over exert is bad for them. Biggest cause of defeat in a dog is lack of wind.no matter what the quarry. A dog is not capable of being fully fitness trained until it has finished growing inside its body aswell as out. You can ruin a good un. It happens all the time.

BS Never heard so much shite in all my life, If you don’t have time to take your dog out, sell it someone who has. Please don’t breed your kids will be stuck in the house until they are 21.[/size]Injury prone dogs are more to do with genetics, badly bred curs, and bad luck. You haven’t seen many farm dogs grow up have you? [/size]
A working sheep dog will do more miles in a week than any dog on here (unless you work dogs for a living like Ken). They get started training at 3-4 months, with hard training coming 6-8 months. Funny how the countryside isn't full of f****d and crippled sheep dogs isn't it?I've seen on many Ozzie sites the lads start working their pigs dogs at 4-6 months. Even seen some out at 3 months. I'd reckon that a feral pig is more of a challenge than a couple of summer rabbits. Them pig dogs seem to work well to 10 and beyond. I don't think he still posts here, but UphillDoc and Dan Edwards all started their dogs young. Again, plains coyotes will be rougher on a dog than some half grown rabbits. Are all of these people doing it wrong?!

You don't have to worried about sheep dogs yapping, jacking, or injuring them self's too much either and they are fairly quick but you don't see them running at break neck speeds and its quarry disappearing down a hole 20yrds away.

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If your going to start them young then do it properly and forget silly pissy rabbits get them pulling some proper gear .......  

with the season drawing closer and my new pup getting bigger by the day i have been looking forward to the start of the season, and that first night of light rain and wind.   yesterday mornings for

He's soon shot up from this pic a few weeks ago trigger...  

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Dogs heart and lungs are not developed until 18months to 2years. Over exertion can not only cause physical but also mental damage. Pups should do no more than play run. Being pushed to over exert is bad for them. Biggest cause of defeat in a dog is lack of wind.no matter what the quarry. A dog is not capable of being fully fitness trained until it has finished growing inside its body aswell as out. You can ruin a good un. It happens all the time.

BS Never heard so much shite in all my life, If you don’t have time to take your dog out, sell it someone who has. Please don’t breed your kids will be stuck in the house until they are 21.[/size]Injury prone dogs are more to do with genetics, badly bred curs, and bad luck. You haven’t seen many farm dogs grow up have you? [/size]
A working sheep dog will do more miles in a week than any dog on here (unless you work dogs for a living like Ken). They get started training at 3-4 months, with hard training coming 6-8 months. Funny how the countryside isn't full of f****d and crippled sheep dogs isn't it?I've seen on many Ozzie sites the lads start working their pigs dogs at 4-6 months. Even seen some out at 3 months. I'd reckon that a feral pig is more of a challenge than a couple of summer rabbits. Them pig dogs seem to work well to 10 and beyond. I don't think he still posts here, but UphillDoc and Dan Edwards all started their dogs young. Again, plains coyotes will be rougher on a dog than some half grown rabbits. Are all of these people doing it wrong?!
You don't have to worried about sheep dogs yapping, jacking, or injuring them self's too much either and they are fairly quick but you don't see them running at break neck speeds and its quarry disappearing down a hole 20yrds away.

Sheep dogs can jack or injure themselves just like any other kind of working dog.

 

Their quarry might not go down a hole, but they can shoot through a gap or round the side of the dog quick enough.

 

Forget this 'One man and his dog' bollocks you see on TV and watch a dog working a proper size flock (200+). You will see that it's lots of sprints, twisting and turning.

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Dogs heart and lungs are not developed until 18months to 2years. Over exertion can not only cause physical but also mental damage. Pups should do no more than play run. Being pushed to over exert is bad for them. Biggest cause of defeat in a dog is lack of wind.no matter what the quarry. A dog is not capable of being fully fitness trained until it has finished growing inside its body aswell as out. You can ruin a good un. It happens all the time.

BS Never heard so much shite in all my life, If you don’t have time to take your dog out, sell it someone who has. Please don’t breed your kids will be stuck in the house until they are 21.[/size]Injury prone dogs are more to do with genetics, badly bred curs, and bad luck. You haven’t seen many farm dogs grow up have you? [/size]
A working sheep dog will do more miles in a week than any dog on here (unless you work dogs for a living like Ken). They get started training at 3-4 months, with hard training coming 6-8 months. Funny how the countryside isn't full of f****d and crippled sheep dogs isn't it?I've seen on many Ozzie sites the lads start working their pigs dogs at 4-6 months. Even seen some out at 3 months. I'd reckon that a feral pig is more of a challenge than a couple of summer rabbits. Them pig dogs seem to work well to 10 and beyond. I don't think he still posts here, but UphillDoc and Dan Edwards all started their dogs young. Again, plains coyotes will be rougher on a dog than some half grown rabbits. Are all of these people doing it wrong?!
You don't have to worried about sheep dogs yapping, jacking, or injuring them self's too much either and they are fairly quick but you don't see them running at break neck speeds and its quarry disappearing down a hole 20yrds away.
Sheep dogs can jack or injure themselves just like any other kind of working dog. Their quarry might not go down a hole, but they can shoot through a gap or round the side of the dog quick enough. Forget this 'One man and his dog' bollocks you see on TV and watch a dog working a proper size flock (200+). You will see that it's lots of sprints, twisting and turning.
I never seen a working collie jack but seen a few old dogs that could no longer keep up and plenty none starters. They can injure them self's or be injured but like i said its not somthing you worrie about as it happens rarely compared to running dogs.

They can make plenty sharp runs but that again depends on the flock and the land they are on as a flock worked with a dog daily is a walk in the park compared to a flock brought down off the hills twice a year.

Some farmers particularly the old timers have the same argument we have with our running dogs where as some say start them young and some say a dog should not be trained to sheep until there 16 month - 2 year old.

Also every farmer likes his dog to be a little different to the next farmer depending on the land and what they do, just like lads with running dogs. Some farmers particularly hill farmers like a collie that works wide and comes in where as lowland farmers might have preference to a dog that works tighter in to the flock. Then some farmers might prefer a dog that puts more pressure on than others. Same as our working dogs really everyone likes need something a little different.

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Would you put a 6-8 month old greyhound in the traps ? I know sod all about greyhounds but I imagine it would wreck its self pretty quick if it went for it.

But that situation has nothing to do in the slightest with the original post

Edited by terryd
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well if it works for them. i wont knock it. its just not for me :thumbs: its just a debate not a bitching session. these are the sort of things that should get aired on a forum about running dogs. there are a lot of folk with young pups on this site so its especially relevent. trigger might get his own back yet if i let my young pup loose early. :D . after all she is already coursing my terriers. good luck in the coming season to all the young guns :yes:

 

I've had 5 month old pups catch myxie rabbits whilst out mooching by day, and I usually take pups ferreting by the time they are 5 months old, but I think that is quite different to running on the lamp, at night, when the pup will be less aware of the lumps and bumps in the ground, fences, obstacles etc. If my 5 month old pup was handling itself well by day, out ferreting, and showing real keenness out mooching, not afraid to dive in for a catch when a rabbit is bolted by the terriers from cover, then I might just consider taking it out on the lamp, but only if the land was as safe as can possibly be ...nice grass field, longish grass to slow the rabbits down, no holes, and very green rabbits.

But so much depends on the owner. I hate to think of a very inexperienced owner taking the 'wrong' sort of pup out on the lamp. Some lurchers grow up keeping themselves together well. They don't have phases where they're all legs and no muscle; they don't fall over their feet or tear around running into things, and they don't lose the plot and get ridiculously over-excited at the slightest thing.

If you know what you're doing, and can assess your pup correctly, that's fine, but some can't. I could have lamped Sparrrow at 6 months, and I'm sure she'd have caught the odd green rabbit. She grew up to be just under 23" and never looked spindly or gawky. Hunni, the dog in my avatar, bigger, more sighthound in her, would have looked stupid at that age.

 

Sparrow at about 6 months

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I can't see much difference between taking a pup mooching and letting it chase a bunny that has been put up and lamping a couple of squatters, other than the fact that the squatters will be a darn sight easier for a young dog to catch. I can see the point when people say a young dogs bones aren't fully formed but both mine have been out mooching from the time they had their injections and both have raced round like mad things just for the fun of it from the off. My old dogs 8 now and although he gets nowhere near the work Triggers dogs do he's never had a serious injury other than tears, which I put down to learning how to run rough ground at an early age.

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I can't see much difference between taking a pup mooching and letting it chase a bunny that has been put up and lamping a couple of squatters, other than the fact that the squatters will be a darn sight easier for a young dog to catch. I can see the point when people say a young dogs bones aren't fully formed but both mine have been out mooching from the time they had their injections and both have raced round like mad things just for the fun of it from the off. My old dogs 8 now and although he gets nowhere near the work Triggers dogs do he's never had a serious injury other than tears, which I put down to learning how to run rough ground at an early age.

A lot depends on the type,as lurchers are all sorts,but when you get a young pup out and about its doing only good and it benefits by every trip out. If that pup is going finish up around say around the seventy pound mark and a powerful dog and you continue to take it out doing serious work then you can do harm. You need to start being cautious around the age when the muscles are becoming strong enough to hurt there good friend the skeleton who has not quite finished growing yet. You can own a very powerful animal with a great set of muscles, but without a sound skeleton to sit on they are worthless..

Im talking about running dogs. Not farm dogs,bushers or yappers that barely get up enough speed to hurt the quarry nevermind themselves.

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Running a pup at 4and half month well it's taking the piss tbh and it tells me there's more nob heads on this site than I thought ,simple as that it's all about bragging in my eyes my pup done this my pup done that ,but at the end of the day it's your mutt so crack on but I'll will guarantee it will end in tears ,happy lamping lads haha

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well if it works for them. i wont knock it. its just not for me :thumbs: its just a debate not a bitching session. these are the sort of things that should get aired on a forum about running dogs. there are a lot of folk with young pups on this site so its especially relevent. trigger might get his own back yet if i let my young pup loose early. :D . after all she is already coursing my terriers. good luck in the coming season to all the young guns :yes:

 

I've had 5 month old pups catch myxie rabbits whilst out mooching by day, and I usually take pups ferreting by the time they are 5 months old, but I think that is quite different to running on the lamp, at night, when the pup will be less aware of the lumps and bumps in the ground, fences, obstacles etc. If my 5 month old pup was handling itself well by day, out ferreting, and showing real keenness out mooching, not afraid to dive in for a catch when a rabbit is bolted by the terriers from cover, then I might just consider taking it out on the lamp, but only if the land was as safe as can possibly be ...nice grass field, longish grass to slow the rabbits down, no holes, and very green rabbits.

But so much depends on the owner. I hate to think of a very inexperienced owner taking the 'wrong' sort of pup out on the lamp. Some lurchers grow up keeping themselves together well. They don't have phases where they're all legs and no muscle; they don't fall over their feet or tear around running into things, and they don't lose the plot and get ridiculously over-excited at the slightest thing.

If you know what you're doing, and can assess your pup correctly, that's fine, but some can't. I could have lamped Sparrrow at 6 months, and I'm sure she'd have caught the odd green rabbit. She grew up to be just under 23" and never looked spindly or gawky. Hunni, the dog in my avatar, bigger, more sighthound in her, would have looked stupid at that age.

 

Sparrow at about 6 months

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didn't you ever bred off the collie type you kept penny? Or the rough fawn types always like them...
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The thing is would we of heard about it .if it had gone the other way ..probley not

 

A lot of the time man can take advantage of a good thing ..and it can go wrong very wrong and cost you a decent dog or what could of been....

 

Which I found out the hard way when my 11 month old pup done his growth plate in his back leg..season lost pup rehomed...that anit nice...atb

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The thing is would we of heard about it .if it had gone the other way ..probley not

 

A lot of the time man can take advantage of a good thing ..and it can go wrong very wrong and cost you a decent dog or what could of been....

 

Which I found out the hard way when my 11 month old pup done his growth plate in his back leg..season lost pup rehomed...that anit nice...atb

Im sorry for that mate,but at last someone has owned up to what can happen. You had a bad experience but you learned by it,and thats the difference. You see people here who just have not got the real interest to learn. Some have been in the job five minutes and they know it all. Opinions differ I know but nature doesnt bend with opinions,and growth plates wont close sooner because lads cant wait to use the pups.

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Think you would be able to tell if dog had it or not before its 2 year old if not shouldn't keep dogs

Thats where you are wrong and why we see so many young dogs jacking and up for sale before they are two. A dog isnt physically finished until its 2 and not adult in mind until its 3. A dog becomes adult at three.

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Think you would be able to tell if dog had it or not before its 2 year old if not shouldn't keep dogs

Thats where you are wrong and why we see so many young dogs jacking and up for sale before they are two. A dog isnt physically finished until its 2 and not adult in mind until its 3. A dog becomes adult at three.

Christ we've gone from 15 months, to 2 years and now it's 3 years.

 

Any advances on 3 years? Anyone reckon 4 years?

 

Lol only kidding mate. I'm sure you're right 😉

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Think you would be able to tell if dog had it or not before its 2 year old if not shouldn't keep dogs

Thats where you are wrong and why we see so many young dogs jacking and up for sale before they are two. A dog isnt physically finished until its 2 and not adult in mind until its 3. A dog becomes adult at three.

Christ we've gone from 15 months, to 2 years and now it's 3 years.

Any advances on 3 years? Anyone reckon 4 years?

Lol only kidding mate. I'm sure you're right

I've a bull/grey X wheaten/grey here that I'm sure will be the best dog ever. Just to make sure I won't be running him on anything other than a tennis ball till he's at least 5...

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