Labour Leadership Election

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

 

 

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

[BGD 6,385]

We could start with mass immigration, would the founders of Labour have approved of mass immigration you think? And yes I'm afraid I think you are a moron, proven when you blatantly accused someone of being a pedo, then act all shocked and hurt and inferred someone was accusing you of the same when it is blatant that is not what he was getting at

 

I have NEVER accused ANYONE of being a "pedo". I said someone was a wrongun for watching a video of a young boy being brutally gang raped and sodomised, if you don't agree with that then you're a wrongun too.

 

Now away and play in traffic before you childish comments get another decent thread pulled.

[WILF 44,162]

 

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

 

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

Now that we totally agree on pal

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

Now that we totally agree on pal

 

 

I reckon me and you agree on quite a lot of issues, we just have completely opposite ideas on how to solve them

[Nicepix 5,650]

 

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

 

 

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

 

 

Yep. Like the RSPCA their agenda has been hijacked by loonies.

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

Yep. Like the RSPCA their agenda has been hijacked by loonies.

That's actually a fecking good analogy pal, an organisation with noble aims hijacked by outside forces who corrupted their principles and agenda Edited July 15, 2016 by BGD

[WILF 44,162]

 

 

 

 

 

So it seems if you are just "ordinary" (what ever that is?!) them the Labour Party isn't really for you hence why they seem to be losing support in places like Scotland to the SNP and in the rest of the U.K. To the likes of UKIP ?

 

Why are you under the impression you have to agree with every single thing the party does to support them? Obviously if support for gays is a red line for you then don't vote for the party but I'd say it'd be a bit silly if everything else the party advocates would benefit you in your day to day life, wouldn't you?

Personally I'd prefer a more socially conservative economically leftist party (seems to be what you're getting at) but if the left split like that they'd never see power again no matter the mood of the public. With a different electoral system we could have smaller leftist parties with different opinions on some social issues that could all come together in a coalition but under FPTP it just makes sense to all come together under the broad banner of the Labour party.

The Labour party under Kinnock, Blair and Brown definitely didn't represent the working classes, that much we can agree on.

Well mate, I can't say I speak for everyone but you talk about it like gay/black/anti this/anti that/weird is good/ normal is bad position of the Labour Party is on the fringe of main policy where by I believe (and as I say I may be alone ) that it is actually 99% what they are about......and again, personally I don't think that's what your ordinary Joe soap is about.

Jmho

Agreed pal in recent years they've spent far too much time and effort on minorities while ignoring the biggest source of inequality in the world - economic insecurity and lack of social mobility. Too much time spent pandering to the liberal left and not enough time spent on issues that effect their base.

Now that we totally agree on pal

I reckon me and you agree on quite a lot of issues, we just have completely opposite ideas on how to solve them

That's the way of it mate

[mackay 3,044]

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

[BGD 6,385]

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

 

Literally no mainstream party supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration so thats good isn't it

[mackay 3,044]

 

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

Literally no mainstream party supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration so thats good isn't it

 

You for real?.

Obviously your idea of checking and controlling differ greatly from mine.

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

Literally no mainstream party supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration so thats good isn't it

 

You for real?.

Obviously your idea of checking and controlling differ greatly from mine.

 

"mass unchecked uncontrolled immigration" is a great soundbite but soundbites should be left in tabloids where they belong

 

I'm sure our ideas on levels of acceptable immigration do differ but the fact that there's any checks or controls at all makes that little soundbite inaccurate.

Edited July 15, 2016 by BGD

[mackay 3,044]

 

 

 

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

Literally no mainstream party supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration so thats good isn't it

 

You for real?.

Obviously your idea of checking and controlling differ greatly from mine.

 

"mass unchecked uncontrolled immigration" is a great soundbite but soundbites should be left in tabloids where they belong

 

I'm sure our ideas on levels of acceptable immigration do differ but the fact that there's any checks or controls at all makes that little soundbite inaccurate.

 

 

Ok, fair enough.

I'm pretty sure the numbers we each find acceptable will differ by quite a few zeros.

To clarify, we have mass immigration, proven factually and easily by the rise in the population, or proven even easier by simply looking around you.

We have unchecked immigration proven by the number of foreign criminals that pop up on a regular basis.

Answer me this as a labour supporter, why do you think the working class people in this country have said fcuk off to the eu, kicked the labour party into the long grass and 4 000 000 gave their vote to ukip?.

Or are you going to insult my intelligence and tell me we're all racists pure and simple?.

All of the above boils down to immigration, and your hero Jeremy Corbyn is as pro immigration as they come.

I may be wrong but has he not stated there should be no limits?.

That'll help all the working class looking for jobs.

[BGD 6,385]

 

 

 

 

No party that supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration can claim to be the party of the working man, regardless of all their claims.

The people most affected negatively and the biggest losers at the end of the day due to the volume of immigrants coming to this country are in fact the genuine working class.

Literally no mainstream party supports mass unchecked, uncontrolled immigration so thats good isn't it

 

You for real?.

Obviously your idea of checking and controlling differ greatly from mine.

 

"mass unchecked uncontrolled immigration" is a great soundbite but soundbites should be left in tabloids where they belong

 

I'm sure our ideas on levels of acceptable immigration do differ but the fact that there's any checks or controls at all makes that little soundbite inaccurate.

 

 

Ok, fair enough.

I'm pretty sure the numbers we each find acceptable will differ by quite a few zeros.

To clarify, we have mass immigration, proven factually and easily by the rise in the population, or proven even easier by simply looking around you.

We have unchecked immigration proven by the number of foreign criminals that pop up on a regular basis.

Answer me this as a labour supporter, why do you think the working class people in this country have said fcuk off to the eu, kicked the labour party into the long grass and 4 000 000 gave their vote to ukip?.

Or are you going to insult my intelligence and tell me we're all racists pure and simple?.

All of the above boils down to immigration, and your hero Jeremy Corbyn is as pro immigration as they come.

I may be wrong but has he not stated there should be no limits?.

That'll help all the working class looking for jobs.

 

 

Immigration isn't the cause of the problems with schools, housing, doctors and other public services that effect the working classes. Chronic lack of funding and building by a succession of Tory and Red Tory governments is, something which Corbyn intends to address. You're right the voters leaving for UKIP aren't just simple racists, they're reacting to very real problems in their communities caused by a rapid increase in immigration with no thought given to improving infrastructure to accomodate the rise in population and voting for the only party offering a solution. Corbyn's Labour offers them another solution by increasing investment in their areas and funding for public services.

 

Labour policy isn't and I don't think ever has been for there to be no limit on immigration.

 

Know what does help the working class looking for jobs? Investment in industry and infrastructure

Edited July 15, 2016 by BGD

[mackay 3,044]

BGD, some valid and fair points, but, what you and your like minded friends are failing to comprehend is that whilst the pressure on services is a big part of the problem it is also the changing face of Britain to the extent that some places do in fact resemble a foreign country. More infrastructure and services would help, that is until the population increases again and we need more, and so on and so on.

You know where I'm coming from.

This island we call Britain is already more heavily and densely populated in comparison to a lot of other western countries.

Why should we have to concrete over more of our green areas and countryside to accommodate immigrants?.

There's got to be more to it than just keeping building, quality of life and the country not being turned into a third world shithole being two reasons alone.

As for labour policy not being and never having been unlimited immigration, look no further than the new labour years, if that wasn't unlimited it wasn't a kick in the arse off it, and before you tell me new labour wasn't the labour we now have or wasn't really labour save it, they're all wearing the same rosette.

[BGD 6,385]

BGD, some valid and fair points, but, what you and your like minded friends are failing to comprehend is that whilst the pressure on services is a big part of the problem it is also the changing face of Britain to the extent that some places do in fact resemble a foreign country. More infrastructure and services would help, that is until the population increases again and we need more, and so on and so on.

You know where I'm coming from.

This island we call Britain is already more heavily and densely populated in comparison to a lot of other western countries.

Why should we have to concrete over more of our green areas and countryside to accommodate immigrants?.

There's got to be more to it than just keeping building, quality of life and the country not being turned into a third world shithole being two reasons alone.

As for labour policy not being and never having been unlimited immigration, look no further than the new labour years, if that wasn't unlimited it wasn't a kick in the arse off it, and before you tell me new labour wasn't the labour we now have or wasn't really labour save it, they're all wearing the same rosette.

 

I'd say the decimation of industry in traditional working class areas has done more to damage communities than any amount of immigration.

 

All good points about increasing urban sprawl etc although Britain isn't as built up as you might think that is a real issue that needs to be taken into consideration and why some level of control on immigration is important. I think we'll have to agree to disagree to on the fact that just having a certain number of foreigners here is a negative just because they're foreign though, you'd be a fool to think the whole country thinks like that or even a majority. Like I say I think the majority of ill feeling towards immigrants has nothing to do with where they come from but comes back to failing public services being put under more strain and folk resenting that. Not an area either of us will be changing our views on any time soon I'm sure

 

Comparing New Labour under Blair to what we're attempting to take the Labour party back to is ridiculous, we're in the middle of an existential battle against Progress and the leftovers of New Labour right now! Only paying attention to the rosette is part of the problem with politics today

Edited July 15, 2016 by BGD