Pellet Impact - Could Less Be More?

[villaman 9,979]

Yes Simon ,my thoughts exactly ,well said

[Jonjon79 13,340]

 

 

 

What time of day and what were they feeding on? If the crop was full and the bird was shot from the front then you'll get flyers! If the same gun had shot the same bird between the shoulder blades, I doubt you would have had a flyer!

They were shot early afternoon, around 2pm. I don't know what they were feeding on - I was shooting in and around an industrial unit.

probably shite n rubbish left behind by polish lorry drivers!

not food for the pot then

check out what this bloke has to say about pellet weights and impacts, he's put a lot of time into it

No, I didn't realy fancy these - most were rather manky looking specimens, sat on beams covered in their own mess. I didn't want to try the ones from outside as they were probably the same. It was just pest control.

 

Thanks for the link - I do find the technical stuff interesting.

[Jonjon79 13,340]

It's not wise to have comments on how effective low power is taking currency. Next thing you know we'll have Terry Doe and the Airgun press editors advising the Government Home Office that the consensus of shooters is 9-10 foot pounds is more than enough and that's how precedents can end up being set.

 

Knowing what an ignorant bugger Theresa May is on most things she is required to examine and rule in the Law on, she'll likely say;

 

"Oh well there's no further need to issue Firearms Licenses for air rifles or any weapon less than 223 cartridge! Look at the money we'll save on applications processes.!!""

 

Oh no no no! That's dangerous to set in motion here gentlemen.

 

I had my Daystate Regal .177 running at 10.3 ft/lbs when I first took it out hunting and it was useless for rabbits, pigeons or anything really unless a clean headshot was taken at reasonable close to medium ranges.

 

.I badly head-wounded a rabbit at 40 metres with it. That was enough for me. Back on my spring rifles while I sorted out the Regal's shortcomings. By that unhappy experience, I am not going out with anything less than 11+ ft/lbs in the tank! I want every shot to kill outright or it gets away. Not have its head bashed in at reasonable distances.

 

With birds, a clear clean headshot is not always possible.nor practical. What do you do, if your bird you are sighting on, has its head covered by a branch or twigs of a tree and alll you see is either its chest and crop or its shoulders and back? I would think twice with a rifle doing 11.3 ft/lbs But it would be a mighty tempting shot; let's be brutally honest..

 

Show me an FAC holder who says he agrees with that level of low power and I'd say it's fair to ask why does he bother with higher performance air rifles, rimfire rifles, ammo limits, police checks and secure cabinets ? If all we need is 9-10 ft/lbs.for hunting rabbits and corvids and woodies.

 

Don't forget that, rats' bodies are tough stuff and a Squirrel 's skin is as tough as armour plate as it is. I've heard of them able to survive a shotgun blast , only to crawl away to slowly die out of sight elsewhere. So as we shoot more than pigeons we need a minimum power level that encompasses all our quarry. Not just one specimin.

 

If you can safely say you can hunt effectively over everything, including squirrels, with 9 ft/lb or so then best of luck to you. It's no business for me or anyone else to tell you where you should be.

 

As far as my shooting goes, 11+ foot pounds is the minimum effective power I should be hunting with. Not the "just enough" barely adequate, surely?

That does make sense and, I do get what you mean.

 

I'd never choose to use a rifle that's too low in power - I do want the right tool for the job. I have had the odd bad shot that I wasn't happy with at all - it happens and, it'll happen again but, I try to lower the chances as much as possible. However, I dont have an fac so, I'm conscious of the fact that I can't sail too close to the line.

 

One of things I've always taught my daughter, apart from safe gun handling, is to have respect for what we hunt.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[jocky 198]

thats why i use a 22 for pigeons and rats, and 177 for rabbits.

[pianoman 3,584]

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT CALIBRE YOU SHOOT WITH...MORE IS ALWAYS MORE, IS ALWAYS BEST....HOW SO?

 

I read somewhere (I won't say where or who, other than it was an PCP speciallist air rifle tuner who should know a lot better.) in which he stated... if you have an air rifle set at 10 ft/lbs, and if you have the ability, you can hit a rabbit's head out to 90 yards and there would still be enough retained kinetic energy to humanely kill it.

 

RUBBISH! Absolute twaddle. That is wantonly dangerous information. I have personally hit a rabbit at 40 metres full on the side of its head and it did nothing but injure the poor thing badly. I've seen pigeons fly off after being hit in the back between the shoulders at 25 metres and less with 10.3 ft/lbs energy from the muzzle.

 

There is a certain smug attitude to power. Often from those who are FAC holders, that you don't need this level, that setting of stopping power. Rubbish. Or why is their case so different to yours or mine? This is one of those topics that become discussed in the airgun press and it is always rubbish that I read.

 

An FAC rated air rifle 20+ ft/lbs or better, is a very handy tool to have in your armoury. If you are prepared for the rigmaroll with the police FO of applying for one and keeping one.

 

A rifle set at 11.5 ft/lbs is a whole 1-ft/lb difference to 10.5 ft/lbs and this difference makes a big one downrange. And is perfectly effective out to 50 metres. Maybe a little more. But you will shoot on average, out to 15 to 20, to 35 to 45 metres max as a common set of figures. What you cannot or must not lose sight of, is that, diferent animals have different levels of toughness in their flesh under their fur and dense feathers and your rifle has to be capable of punching its pellet through this outer shield to kill it fast and clean. We are not alaways granted a nice, focused, well-in-range headshot. Some if not most air rifles actually perform at their best at 11.5 or so FPE.

 

More hunters miss a rabbit or whatever at less than 10 metres or even closer because they don't have their reticle/pellet ratio of trajectory understood. It is HOLDOVER you need because the barrel is lower still than the reticle when you place it on a rabbit's head at these short distances. Especially with .22.

 

Accuracy with consistent Legal Limit power must always be the minimum standard for your rifle and your ability to use it wisely and humanely.

 

Your pellet should always be capable of at least hitting humanely harder and faster than the animal can move out its way!

[Stoater 21]

At the risk of being accused of all manner of heretical accusations, I'd venture that anybody who says they never have "fliers", or runners, is deluding themselves. Only yesterday, I shot a crow from 20 yards through the upper body with my HW ( .22). It flew off over a large river, landed in a tall beech tree, and sat for several seconds before crashing downwards. When I picked it up later, I found the pellet had gone clean through it's internal organs/lungs, causing huge damage, exiting out of it's lower neck.

Bit like a "towering" pheasant with a shotgun, although granted, shotgun pellets are smaller.

Personally, I've had all sorts of quarry seemingly carry on pretty much as normal after being shot in vital body areas, only to soon expire.

[mark williams 7,549]

Mmmm As usual, laws and rules set by people in power that " just don`t know".

 

12 ft/lbs limitation on an air rifle and you must be 17 to go out on your own with it.

We had a young lad at our range chrono a catapult ball bearing (steel) 1/4 inch ball.

 

 

21 FT/LBS he could hit a football easily at 20 yards with it.

So imagine a fully grown, average bloke shooting a 1/2 inch lead ball.

 

A crossbow

 

A longbow

 

A bloody boomarang

 

etc, etc

 

 

 

12 FT/LBS is a very low level of power indeed.

 

 

So as i always say, fieldcraft - get close, real close and shot placement.

[David Aiken 253]

 

What time of day and what were they feeding on? If the crop was full and the bird was shot from the front then you'll get flyers! If the same gun had shot the same bird between the shoulder blades, I doubt you would have had a flyer!

They were shot early afternoon, around 2pm. I don't know what they were feeding on - I was shooting in and around an industrial unit.

 

Full crop then? Like shooting armor! Head shot for Woodies (sub 12 ft lbs) or if a body shot, my trusty .22lr

[pianoman 3,584]

Honestly. 12 ft lbs is not much to go with as it is. And true to say, there are always flyers and runners. Ammo is not always as consistently made and sorted these days as it should be.

 

15 to 20 FPE is where air rifles should be as an effective hunting arm. trouble is, thanks to the education system here, we seem to produce more cretins than anywhere else If an idiot wants to commit acts of vandalism, or worse, with one, they should be prosecuted and locked up. Not the rest of us penalised for their shit.

[Deker 3,453]

Mmmm As usual, laws and rules set by people in power that " just don`t know".

 

12 ft/lbs limitation on an air rifle and you must be 17 to go out on your own with it.

We had a young lad at our range chrono a catapult ball bearing (steel) 1/4 inch ball.

 

 

21 FT/LBS he could hit a football easily at 20 yards with it.

So imagine a fully grown, average bloke shooting a 1/2 inch lead ball.

 

A crossbow

 

A longbow

 

A bloody boomarang

 

etc, etc

 

 

 

12 FT/LBS is a very low level of power indeed.

 

 

So as i always say, fieldcraft - get close, real close and shot placement.

 

 

I seem to recall my old Longbow around 40 years ago could turn the arrow into a little over 40 ft lb, and that was nothing special even then.

[Jonjon79 13,340]

 

I read somewhere (I won't say where or who, other than it was an PCP speciallist air rifle tuner who should know a lot better.) in which he stated... if you have an air rifle set at 10 ft/lbs, and if you have the ability, you can hit a rabbit's head out to 90 yards and there would still be enough retained kinetic energy to humanely kill it.

 

I have heard things like this said but, not to this extreme. Personally, I think that comments like this demonstrate a very poor attitude towards our prey and, disrespect for the sport in general.

 

I'm no sharp shooter but, I do enjoy aiming for spinners and the bell at 80yrds at my local range. It's an open air range - I can see the effect that wind has on the pellet and, I can see the reduced effect on spinners. There's just way too many variables to hunt at that range and power.

 

I guess, it could be possible with a 'once in a lifetime shot' but, it's not a chance that I would be willing to take.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Jonjon79

[Jonjon79 13,340]

At the risk of being accused of all manner of heretical accusations, I'd venture that anybody who says they never have "fliers", or runners, is deluding themselves. Only yesterday, I shot a crow from 20 yards through the upper body with my HW ( .22). It flew off over a large river, landed in a tall beech tree, and sat for several seconds before crashing downwards. When I picked it up later, I found the pellet had gone clean through it's internal organs/lungs, causing huge damage, exiting out of it's lower neck.

Bit like a "towering" pheasant with a shotgun, although granted, shotgun pellets are smaller.

Personally, I've had all sorts of quarry seemingly carry on pretty much as normal after being shot in vital body areas, only to soon expire.

I agree, fully.

 

Strange things can happen when hunting - I've had a rabbit, gutted and skinned, still twitching. I've had a head shot pigeon walk 5yrds while dragging its head on the floor. These things I can't do much about.

 

I've also had a rabbit screaming and going so balistic on the floor that a follow up shop was impossible - this one, I had to run in and break its neck. I've hit a couple of birds that flew off out of sight.

These are the things that I want to do my best to minimise.

[Jonjon79 13,340]

 

So as i always say, fieldcraft - get close, real close and shot placement.

Absolutely!

[Rez 4,957]

Mr Pittaway's doing a big push for the .25 calibre on gaybook at the minute with his new SFS Snipe.

 

We'll all be getting twenty fives soon, watch this space

[jonnie bravo 572]

Wouldn't mind a .25 springer at all

 

An old boy at my range has just got a .25 springer, it is some sort of bsa airsporter or something. Fitted out with a 4x32 trujicon, right little outfit. The other guns he has are all .177, hw100, daystate, impact and the like, so I was pretty impressed when he turned up with it. Much to my delight he says it's devastating on the bunnies