Plummer Cross Bedlington Terrier

[the duke 54]

 

Recessive genes, half bred double bred dominant colouring.... I'll stick to the basics a dog that stays til dug over a bitch that stays til dug

 

Duke,if only life was that simple, the further you get away from known parentage, the more scatter bred they become,not only making it uncertain of colour, stamp,etc, but also uncertain of working ability, thats why the likes of Nuttall,Chapman,Mouseley,etc all went back to basics when starting a line,years ago there were only a handful of breeders specialising in one type, i.e.: Patts,Russells,etc and if you were after a guaranteed worker providing you had the dosh they would sell you one, whereas now there are loads of wannabes that are putting worker / worker as you say but still producing sh*te, there is no quick way to quality, you may get lucky here and there but genetics will always come out in the end, WM

all lines are started by worker to worker mate

[TOPPER 1,809]

worker to worker by all means but you still have to know the history behind them to produce a type that works consistently, allways bred for work and type will follow as the saying goes but it may take a lifetime to get there

[dillydog 8,414]

Breed from an unbroken line of workers, worker to worker could produce anything unless you do your homework.

[the duke 54]

Where did all these lines start I wonder

[stop.end 4,079]

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

[MOLE265 792]

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stop.end

Today, 09:24 PM

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

 

Cat in amongst the pigeons time......

 

What about Plummer terriers then they were created in five minutes in the grand scheme of things.

[dillydog 8,414]

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stop.end

Today, 09:24 PM

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

Cat in amongst the pigeons time......

What about Plummer terriers then they were created in five minutes in the grand scheme of things.

That's why they're shit

[Plucky1 1,119]

Like This

stop.end

Today, 09:24 PM

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

 

Cat in amongst the pigeons time......

 

What about Plummer terriers then they were created in five minutes in the grand scheme of things.

Plummers are just a different coloured Russell in my opinion, a coat pattern, they are a mix from too many types to ever sustain themselves as a proper breed, Brian Plummer was an egotistical maniac intent on always proving others wrong,disliked most normal dog lads and tried to breed to an elite ownership (hence the price), no right minded person would of started a type by putting beagle and bull in it, he never completed his ambition to breed whole litters of just caped terriers and always struggled with body or head size,every terrier man thats ever bred wants to breed a dog with a tight cobby body thats easily spannable but with the head of a bull, the Plummer terrier as a breed does not exist, they are just a type at best, this all goes back to my original point of knowing your starting dogs genetic lineage, a colour does not make it a breed, there are still too many throwbacks produced by putting any old terriers together, WM

Edited April 5, 2016 by Plucky1

[foxdropper 17,092]

Plucky ..You had a bump on the head mate cos your making perfect sense lol.Agree with all your writing lately

[dillydog 8,414]

Fd, I was thinking the same mate, plucky you're a changed man lol

[MOLE265 792]

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Plucky1

Today, 12:15 PM

Like This

stop.end

Today, 09:24 PM

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

 

Cat in amongst the pigeons time......

 

What about Plummer terriers then they were created in five minutes in the grand scheme of things.

Plummers are just a different coloured Russell in my opinion, a coat pattern, they are a mix from too many types to ever sustain themselves as a proper breed, Brian Plummer was an egotistical maniac intent on always proving others wrong,disliked most normal dog lads and tried to breed to an elite ownership (hence the price), no right minded person would of started a type by putting beagle and bull in it, he never completed his ambition to breed whole litters of just caped terriers and always struggled with body or head size,every terrier man thats ever bred wants to breed a dog with a tight cobby body thats easily spannable but with the head of a bull, the Plummer terrier as a breed does not exist, they are just a type at best, this all goes back to my original point of knowing your starting dogs genetic lineage, a colour does not make it a breed, there are still too many throwbacks produced by putting any old terriers together, WM

 

Edited by Plucky1, Today, 12:17 PM.

 

Is that's spiel because you fell out with most of the members of the Plummer terrier club of Great Britain or do you keep real terriers now black ones.

S.B.

[stormyboy 1,352]

Like This

stop.end

Today, 09:24 PM

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

 

Cat in amongst the pigeons time......

 

What about Plummer terriers then they were created in five minutes in the grand scheme of things.

 

They were created from working stock of various types,same as any other sort was. A working knowledge of genetics speeds up the process of producing an even type, rather than just banging any type together just because they work.

Now another cat to feck the pigeons...Think what you like about Plummer,some loved him,a lot loathed him BUT-how many men have succeed in producing a distinctive type of terrier that does (or did?) what it says on the tin? In their own lifetime? And his writing, 'borrowed' or not had some sound advice about entering.

Now I know the general consensus is that Plummers are shit as earth dogs, I dont know about modern lines but it is heading in that direction and will become a lap dog if some get their way, but Plummers I owned and have seen were as good as ANY black dog out there. I doubt very much that will continue but believe me the original stock were produced from hard working stuff.

[Plucky1 1,119]

Stormy, I know what your saying on Brian but the best Plummer earth dogs I have ever seen were Plummer / Patts, I ran a line of 1 cross and second cross for 20 yrs that would work all quarry without suffering to much damage even on heavier stuff, always stayed till dug, many of the Plummer earth dogs about at the moment tend to be a tad too hard or try to get the job done too quick, if it won't bolt I like a patient dog that does not take too much stick till I get there, as regards him breeding what he set out to do well the jury is still out on that one as I believe he never finished the job, by falling ill he lost control of the direction, the people who took over conveniently forgot that a terriers job was firstly going to ground, the girls and a few men without any real terrier work experience that formed the club to help him finish it changed not only the size of the stock but the work it was meant for, Brian told me he was going to breed a genuine all rounder that was spannable and 12"-14" TTS, this was forgotten for a long time with people in the know breeding full size beagle types of no use in an earth, I do believe if the likes of yourself and derek palmer,Curtis Price had stayed involved the out come would of been a lot different, it was too easy to just breed a ratting terrier by the clubs and they settled for just that with no ambition to add the extra effort to breed the all round terrier ordinary lads wanted or was promised by Brian,these clubs market the Plummer for a "posh"crowd that like the idea of owning a terrier without the effort of having to work them properly, its a shame that more lads that have them don't take the time to test them a bit more, Brian cherry picked the caped dogs from litters and ignored the types that were not of the right colour or pattern so his own dogs always appeared to be of the right type but there were many that were not, he never achieved the outcome he set out to do as with the many breeds in their genetic make up the further he got from the original stock the harder it got and its still the same with the inbred health problems beset by the progeny today, WM

[foxdropper 17,092]

When you say you ran a line of 1st cross and second cross mate are you referring to a succession of first cross ,2nd cross matings bred for purpose or do you mean 1`,2,3,4 gens etc of first cross,2nd cross breeding true .

[the duke 54]

They all started 100s of years ago by men who knew the successful ingredient to raring workers. Then handed down just the same as all other fieldcraft...

they all started 100s of years ago bullshit if your talkin breed then yes maybe but not lines.... People start lines by breeding worker to worker some of them may come from existing lines some maybe scatter bred but the well known lines of today's terriers have only been line bred for the amount of time the said person has been breeding dogs and I don't think there are many 200 year old terrier men.