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Of course they'd be turning in their graves Sounder, most of them made themselves out to be legends.

They all had the best dogs, they all had a terrier that pulled out a badger after 20 other dogs came away and they all dug trenches 200 foot long and 15 foot deep on their own.

And we'll never be able to prove otherwise.

 

It kills me to say this, but because lads will travel far for sport now and with the inter-net and mobile phones it's harder now to tell lies and get away with it than it was even 20 years ago.

In those days tales of legendary terriers and terriermen fooled everyone, nowadays the only person fooled by lies is the one telling them.

Weather they did or they didnt , you must agree we wouldnt have a pot to piss in without the old boys today neil, thats why this generation is as good as what you say, and fair play to them ,things usualy get better not worse after time.

As someone said ,theres good and bad in every generation,theres always messers . Not all the old lads were flutes ,some of them knew a bit.

With the trials , a badger was let loose out of a bag in the middle of cork city one night ,that was the begining of the end of the trials.

I dont agree with ya on the old boys makin legends of themselves though , the good ones dont talk much ,if you want to believe someone talkin rubbish in the pub thats up to yourself. look at gorman , i doubt he was on the buy and sell , i dont think todays generation would tell him much about wheatens.

 

I agree.

My main argument on this debate is that I disagree when people say that good working terriers and good terriermen are much rarer nowadays.

To say that is an insult to those in this era who, lets face it, are battling on in much tougher times.

 

 

Before I leave this debate, because it looks like I'm belittling those gone before us , which I'm not, I tell of one old timer and one of his old practices.

As far as I know the man is still alive but I'd say would be well in his 80s and he lived the opposite end of Meath to me. He kept around 7 or 8 Russel's and used to work 3 or 4 at a time.

We called to him one time and as we opened the back door of his house we thought his house was on fire because of the massive amount of smoke in his kitchen.

We heard a voice through the smoke telling us to come in and sit down.

We asked was everything alright ?

He told us not to worry as he was just worming his dogs.

He was deliberately burning liver and onions on the pan. Burning is putting it mildly as he was incinerating them and he said that's what kills worms in a dogs guts, burnt liver and onions.

He swears the following is true.

He had a dig on the side of a road one day and after he took the terriers out he looked in and here was a badger looking back out at him.

Just then he heard a voice behind and here behind him was a squad car with two Gards in it.

One came over and said what are you doing ?

He told the Gard he'd dug a fox.

The Gard looked into the hole, had a look and said OK.

He said he looked into the hole and here was a fox looking up at him and the Gard. He doesn't know where the badger went but it was gone and now there was a fox looking up at him.

The Gards went on their way.

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i am now a lot older than the men i classed as old timers when i started , many of the big names around my area where poor terriermen , the only good thing about some was they could use a spade ! i we

Im surprised and sad at the old diggers getting knocked,especially by some older lads on here.I started digging in 1967 with hairy arse Country men some were my own family.These old timers were no foo

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past. Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting te

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Of course they'd be turning in their graves Sounder, most of them made themselves out to be legends.

They all had the best dogs, they all had a terrier that pulled out a badger after 20 other dogs came away and they all dug trenches 200 foot long and 15 foot deep on their own.

And we'll never be able to prove otherwise.

 

It kills me to say this, but because lads will travel far for sport now and with the inter-net and mobile phones it's harder now to tell lies and get away with it than it was even 20 years ago.

In those days tales of legendary terriers and terriermen fooled everyone, nowadays the only person fooled by lies is the one telling them.

Weather they did or they didnt , you must agree we wouldnt have a pot to piss in without the old boys today neil, thats why this generation is as good as what you say, and fair play to them ,things usualy get better not worse after time.

As someone said ,theres good and bad in every generation,theres always messers . Not all the old lads were flutes ,some of them knew a bit.

With the trials , a badger was let loose out of a bag in the middle of cork city one night ,that was the begining of the end of the trials.

I dont agree with ya on the old boys makin legends of themselves though , the good ones dont talk much ,if you want to believe someone talkin rubbish in the pub thats up to yourself. look at gorman , i doubt he was on the buy and sell , i dont think todays generation would tell him much about wheatens.

 

I agree.

My main argument on this debate is that I disagree when people say that good working terriers and good terriermen are much rarer nowadays.

To say that is an insult to those in this era who, lets face it, are battling on in much tougher times.

 

 

Before I leave this debate, because it looks like I'm belittling those gone before us , which I'm not, I tell of one old timer and one of his old practices.

As far as I know the man is still alive but I'd say would be well in his 80s and he lived the opposite end of Meath to me. He kept around 7 or 8 Russel's and used to work 3 or 4 at a time.

We called to him one time and as we opened the back door of his house we thought his house was on fire because of the massive amount of smoke in his kitchen.

We heard a voice through the smoke telling us to come in and sit down.

We asked was everything alright ?

He told us not to worry as he was just worming his dogs.

He was deliberately burning liver and onions on the pan. Burning is putting it mildly as he was incinerating them and he said that's what kills worms in a dogs guts, burnt liver and onions.

He swears the following is true.

He had a dig on the side of a road one day and after he took the terriers out he looked in and here was a badger looking back out at him.

Just then he heard a voice behind and here behind him was a squad car with two Gards in it.

One came over and said what are you doing ?

He told the Gard he'd dug a fox.

The Gard looked into the hole, had a look and said OK.

He said he looked into the hole and here was a fox looking up at him and the Gard. He doesn't know where the badger went but it was gone and now there was a fox looking up at him.

The Gards went on their way.

 

Ive opened to both in the stop end, was the icing on the cake of a corker of an afternoon.

 

1st dig a brace, farm only has a few spots, & is quick on the phone when he sees activity.

2 foxes and a badger, only 1 in the photo as the vixen managed to slip my fingers ;) much to my mates disgust LOL. (he is cuddling the fox taking the piss out of me telling me im an anti for letting it go...) Old boy of a farmer who if he is in is always hospitable and loads us up with eggs. Backfilled by torchlight. All digs with the same bitch. All legal where and when carried out. & should say for the benefit of those that dont know.. that foxes never ever use badger settes & badgers never ever use fox earths.

 

ec923b39-d021-4438-bce8-6bdea36ae490_zpsPhoto0074.jpg

Edited by Columbo
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Im surprised and sad at the old diggers getting knocked,especially by some older lads on here.I started digging in 1967 with hairy arse Country men some were my own family.These old timers were no fools they knew how to find in big places with no technology and were top class digging men and knew good dogs from shite,no sentiment shite did not come home.Some clowns back then worked more than one dog to ground just like some do now,but the serious dog men worked one dog.I have heard all the so called Legends names,never met any of them nor do I wish to.The real Legends were the hairy arse Country men who kept to themselves kept good lines tight and made no money.My opinion they kept better dogs they were to ground much longer(yes sometimes it did take hours to locate them)sometimes they were to ground for days(but most were located and and dug)I have heard opinions on here that dogs are better now because he gets more digs because he can be found quicker.Which dog would you want a dog with ten handy digs or a dog with three ten hour digs or one dig that lasted two days,I would go for the last two options.Shame on lads for belittling those men who are mostly all dead and gone,only for them lads would be still digging rats.

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I got a similar way of thinking as yourself Liam. Any time spent in the company of old boys I consider a pleasure. They didnt worry about sharptooths and what boots and all that malarky, their the ones responsible for the regional types of terriers we've inherited today long before the KC got their grubby mitts on them. & the fundamentals of terrierwork.

 

Shame to see them spoken of with less respect than I think should be given, even the messers of yesteryear have shown us how not to do it!

 

Modern day serious terriemen will probably see more digs and be able to travel wider and further and to get access to new gear and exchange ideas a lot easier, but all that said and done I think of the Blur album 'Modern Life Is Rubbish'. - Where I live now the patterdale had never been seen before and 'wtf is that' still gets asked when I collar up a dog, but apart from that we still hunt the way they have always done 90+% of the time, using our senses to find the dog. Yes some days we could dig 3 or 4 times as much quarry, we'd have the quantity but....

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liamdelaney

Yesterday, 06:44 PM

Im surprised and sad at the old diggers getting knocked,especially by some older lads on here.I started digging in 1967 with hairy arse Country men some were my own family.These old timers were no fools they knew how to find in big places with no technology and were top class digging men and knew good dogs from shite,no sentiment shite did not come home.Some clowns back then worked more than one dog to ground just like some do now,but the serious dog men worked one dog.I have heard all the so called Legends names,never met any of them nor do I wish to.The real Legends were the hairy arse Country men who kept to themselves kept good lines tight and made no money.My opinion they kept better dogs they were to ground much longer(yes sometimes it did take hours to locate them)sometimes they were to ground for days(but most were located and and dug)I have heard opinions on here that dogs are better now because he gets more digs because he can be found quicker.Which dog would you want a dog with ten handy digs or a dog with three ten hour digs or one dig that lasted two days,I would go for the last two options.Shame on lads for belittling those men who are mostly all dead and gone,only for them lads would be still digging rats.

 

Well said Liam. I concur mate,bad crack slating auld guys who most of the time delt with vermin as a necessity in places like the Cumbrian fells. These experts that are slating the aulder generation that are mostly passed, have a wee look in your yards it wouldn't happen to be patterdales (don't like the name) that you's are keeping ? Prefer the fell terrier name. If it's to late for you to create your own strain of terrier to become famous pmsl. Jump on to the Jeremy Kyle show and you'll get your fifteen minutes pmsl.

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Same as anything though ,a man can only truthfully comment on what his eyes have seen and if bad practice was just that then a lad is right to condemn it .Its no good being romantic about the past ,its done and dusted with lessons learnt hopefully .The decent lads of yesteryear passed on decent ways and the messers have drifted into wherever messers drift ,ask Plucky .

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No one's decrying the old greats, it's the bulk of the old timers that used bad practice, don't tell me it didn't happen, I saw it go on with my own two eyes. It was the dogs that made these men great, you could say it was his skill in the field but at the end of the day without the tools you're nothing.

What I was trying to say is good working terriers are a dammed sight more common now than they've ever been, the standard of dogs are up and the standard of terrier work is up. Sadly a quick look on FB will prove that getting good terriers is far to easy and lads jump in at the deep end with no idea of best practice, no idea of kennel management and most are only in the game to have their ego's stroked.

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After reading my own post I've had the epiphany that perhaps thing aren't that different these day from yesteryear

 

Yes, things aren't different concerning men. Just a new : electricity.
With electricity, we have internet (facebook and some others) and we have bellman&Flint (and some others).
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Same as anything though ,a man can only truthfully comment on what his eyes have seen and if bad practice was just that then a lad is right to condemn it .Its no good being romantic about the past ,its done and dusted with lessons learnt hopefully .The decent lads of yesteryear passed on decent ways and the messers have drifted into wherever messers drift ,ask Plucky .

I'm not the silly fecker that has to get up for work, I do as I like,when I like,where I like, 2 private pensions,own 2 houses and no debt so yes its hard drifting LOL's,get a real life dreamer,nobody will ever remember you when you're gone for your terriers,the likes of Parson Russell, Nuttall,Gould,Mousely,and even Plummer like many others are there for all to see,mention a name and you will automatically conjure that terriers particular image in your mind,mention Foxfecker and what,......nothing springs to mind,you have blended a few black lines together but when anyone see's them it will only be Nuttall they will be thinking of, you can call your betters all the names you like but it is them that will be remembered when you're dead and buried,having spoken to all the afore mentioned names I've never heard any of them say they are this or that or their dogs are the best,or tell you how to work them,we all do what we do and locators have made the job easier in as much as you can find them at a decent depth now,back in the day they did what they had to at times to get a result, here's a question then for those that have knocked any old timers, if your dogs collar was not working and it was a known hard stayer, would you enter another to get your mark ??? how many of you are guilty of bad practise ??? I would say we have all done mad stuff to get a result when desperate, I certainly have,WM

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Im surprised and sad at the old diggers getting knocked,especially by some older lads on here.I started digging in 1967 with hairy arse Country men some were my own family.These old timers were no fools they knew how to find in big places with no technology and were top class digging men and knew good dogs from shite,no sentiment shite did not come home.Some clowns back then worked more than one dog to ground just like some do now,but the serious dog men worked one dog.I have heard all the so called Legends names,never met any of them nor do I wish to.The real Legends were the hairy arse Country men who kept to themselves kept good lines tight and made no money.My opinion they kept better dogs they were to ground much longer(yes sometimes it did take hours to locate them)sometimes they were to ground for days(but most were located and and dug)I have heard opinions on here that dogs are better now because he gets more digs because he can be found quicker.Which dog would you want a dog with ten handy digs or a dog with three ten hour digs or one dig that lasted two days,I would go for the last two options.Shame on lads for belittling those men who are mostly all dead and gone,only for them lads would be still digging rats.

age has no bearing on how good a man works terriers, there was good and bad back then, and its the same now liam, the older lads I went out with were excellent digging lads, but theres lads equally as good out there these days, just to add I was never as good as either ,atb

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Decided to read this as entertainment and wasn't disappointed .I couldnt care less what your circumstances are pukey as you will forever be a liar to anyone who brushes your life .Do you think money impresses me at all ,I'm self made with a building firm and hunt most the winter so your lifestyle holds no allure to me .You make a point that I won't be remembered lol like I care BUT its a fact MY dogs will live on through others .if I wanted fame I'd be selling dogs like the other peddlars you mention .I repeat again that Brian Nuttal has never met you ,you have never walked pups for him neither does he know of you lol.I have never said my dogs are better than anyone's ,that's something you have read into my persona and finally anyone with a hard type dog and a grain of intulect does not enter it in a deep spot .I repeat with a grain of intulect so that rules you out .Must be a shit life knowing your inferior,no one has a good word for you and your dogs are shite too .You paint yourself as a full time pest controller lol which I've disproved with a few phone calls.Coin holds no allure to me with the dogs neither does the strive to be recognised within the breed I chose .I will print a link to a Facebook page if you want where you are really showing your true colours .Do yourself and others a favour and f**k off for good instead of desperately trying to find recognition under a new name ,pathetic .

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Two dogs in one hole is not the same as double dogging.

One is to assist the recovery of a lost dog,

The other is to assist the capture by two inadequate dogs.

As stated, in the past there has been bad practices and no doubt the future also.

 

Quite a lot has changed in terriers since I was a boy , but not the dogs there was good and bad then as there is now.

The onset of locators has allowed mute terriers to be classed as decent workers and bred from.

Wouldn't of happened in the past .

Men were less tolerant of bullshit also.

Voice is just as important now as it was then imo.

 

Good post WM , .. It would be foolhardy to put a forward thinking terrier to locate any dog

.as said a case of knowing your dogs.

Spent late 60s early 70s watching old boys dig dad included , never any double dogging and no gadgets

Bars banjos and baying is all they had .

Hard days and harder men . We all have it so easy nowadays

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yrs ago nobody give a fxxx what you were doing,we bumped into some idiot last week there squealing an shouting he was a member of some club iwft summat like that we shouldnt be on ground doing foxs theirs cubs about :icon_eek: anyway f****d him off cxxt called the gards lol .these clubs ruining it running round shows posing whos the fanciest waterboots on,lolthe oul hands were rough n ready yrs ago but didnt care who done what holes better terriers aswell imo.

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