Old Timers

[bedx 51]

I haven't done terrier work for along time,locaters have made obtaining a decent dog alot easier imo mute!! ffs the thrill of hearing the dog doing its job will never leave me

[WEDGEY 749]

Sometimes I think there does be confusion as what eras where considered those of the old timer and the modern era.

There's young lads keeping terriers now that would consider you and I, Dillydog, as old fellahs whereas you and I would be talking about lads in their 60s and 70s as the generation before us.

IMO the tightening up of bloodlines and the art of good single handed terrierwork started in the 70s into the 80s and IMO the late 80s into the 90s was a golden age of terrierwork.

In those years it was possible to go where you wanted without much fear of someone questioning your activities and there was a great standard of terrier and terrierman emerging. I also think it was those years when lads started considering terrierwork as more of a sporting activity than pure pest control where it didn't matter how you got your quarry as long as you got it.

I started digging in the mid 80s and those who were showing me the ropes had learned their methods in the late 60s, early 70s.

Strongdogs (the more the merrier) and tongs were essential pieces of kit and I don't think I ever seen a firearm on a dig 'till I went out on my own.

I will say one thing about those lads though, I never seen them work one above the sod, it was a big NO NO, and most quarry was released.

But it wasn't uncommon to bag one, bring it home and try a pup or two in a shore. It would be brought back to it's home that evening.

But since those rough and ready days I've seen terrierwork graduate into a much more polished art and in the last few years some of the best terriermen I've ever seen are what I'd call young lads.

It's great to see it and IMO it shows a good healthy future for terrierwork.

I'd hav classed you as an old timer Neil lol Edited February 28, 2016 by WEDGEY

[neil cooney 10,415]

 

Sometimes I think there does be confusion as what eras where considered those of the old timer and the modern era.

There's young lads keeping terriers now that would consider you and I, Dillydog, as old fellahs whereas you and I would be talking about lads in their 60s and 70s as the generation before us.

IMO the tightening up of bloodlines and the art of good single handed terrierwork started in the 70s into the 80s and IMO the late 80s into the 90s was a golden age of terrierwork.

In those years it was possible to go where you wanted without much fear of someone questioning your activities and there was a great standard of terrier and terrierman emerging. I also think it was those years when lads started considering terrierwork as more of a sporting activity than pure pest control where it didn't matter how you got your quarry as long as you got it.

I started digging in the mid 80s and those who were showing me the ropes had learned their methods in the late 60s, early 70s.

Strongdogs (the more the merrier) and tongs were essential pieces of kit and I don't think I ever seen a firearm on a dig 'till I went out on my own.

I will say one thing about those lads though, I never seen them work one above the sod, it was a big NO NO, and most quarry was released.

But it wasn't uncommon to bag one, bring it home and try a pup or two in a shore. It would be brought back to it's home that evening.

But since those rough and ready days I've seen terrierwork graduate into a much more polished art and in the last few years some of the best terriermen I've ever seen are what I'd call young lads.

It's great to see it and IMO it shows a good healthy future for terrierwork.

I'd hav classed you as an old timer Neil lol

 

Yeh, thanks a f****n' lot, .

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

Great honest post Neil Cooney,unfortunately there are many still stuck in those dark days before legislation and not using firearms to despatch,they will be the ones that will end what little terrier work there is left,I always used a gun for a quick despatch but that was not a common practise among the lads that shown me, the biggest difference we did that the old boys didn't was the use of good terriers to bush fox to either lurchers or gun,they were very old fashioned gang handed and the only time the terrier was slipped off a lead was to enter an earth and sometimes it would be an all day event, the best thing to happen to terrier work in my lifetime has been the introduction of locators,changed terrier work making it a much safer event,WM

what are you on about ? the old boys didnt use terriers to bush fox ? They used everthing they had. The only time a terrier was slipped was to enter an earth ?

its the new generation that has terriers on leads ,old timers didnt even have leads . where i come from anyway

 

Then that would be your experience then wouldn't it,we worked terriers all the way down to B/ham regular and that was what we observed, WM

[Daniel cain 42,798]

Thought the whole idea of working/keeping dogs was about being able to produce better than what you had? -best dog to best bitch?then imo the dogs and terriermen around to day are better than the old timers lol,like it's been said most the old boys loved to double dogs up-must be an over 50/60s thing?cant be arsed to let a dog settle so chuck in another?to lazy to dig?when the dog comes away-he does that when he's killed them-lmfao. I've met plenty that did it, and still do it now,don't get me wrong I've met one or two old boys you could learn a thing or two off.but (mostly how not to go about things)most can't be told and know it all-look down their noses ,try and discredit any thing you may suggest and my favourite one is when they try and tell you how my dogs should be working(like they would know,some f***ing darlings out there lol)-was brought up to respect the old folk,but honestly most are stuck in a time warp,hopefully when they go maybe a lot of their bad habits go with them-I live in hope ,maybe all them years ago ,doing what they pleased and wanted was the real reason that we ever had the ban?I was 24 when it was passed and never had a tug off the law before or after the ban involving working my dogs-touch wood ,been told to f**k off!!! Plenty times mind-they all bleet on about the youngsters f***ing things up mind ,if you ask them-always blame shifting another bad habit most old timers have -Age doesn't always bring the knowledge, and age dont make you any better than the next man.atb dc

[morton 5,367]

Thought the whole idea of working/keeping dogs was about being able to produce better than what you had? -best dog to best bitch?then imo the dogs and terriermen around to day are better than the old timers lol,like it's been said most the old boys loved to double dogs up-must be an over 50/60s thing?cant be arsed to let a dog settle so chuck in another?to lazy to dig?when the dog comes away-he does that when he's killed them-lmfao. I've met plenty that did it, and still do it now,don't get me wrong I've met one or two old boys you could learn a thing or two off.but (mostly how not to go about things)most can't be told and know it all-look down their noses ,try and discredit any thing you may suggest and my favourite one is when they try and tell you how my dogs should be working(like they would know,some f***ing darlings out there lol)-was brought up to respect the old folk,but honestly most are stuck in a time warp,hopefully when they go maybe a lot of their bad habits go with them-I live in hope ,maybe all them years ago ,doing what they pleased and wanted was the real reason that we ever had the ban?I was 24 when it was passed and never had a tug off the law before or after the ban involving working my dogs-touch wood ,been told to f**k off!!! Plenty times mind-they all bleet on about the youngsters f***ing things up mind ,if you ask them-always blame shifting another bad habit most old timers have -Age doesn't always bring the knowledge, and age dont make you any better than the next man.atb dc

If you need to produce better than what you had,id not breed from them.I know some of the old lads are bullshitting romantics yet many i met i learnt an awful lot from,possibly why im a bullshitting romantic.I cannot believe nearly everybody on here as never had honest stewardship from an elder and wished to own a kennel of dogs like many of them owned,i was and am still in awe of the expertise and dogmanship and skills,mainly lost now,that many of our elders possessed.The facts are that many of the places the olde lads worked are left alone now because the dogs and expertise to work them is lost,generally.

[foxdropper 17,092]

As a lad I was once an follower at a hunt in Wales .I was with another lad on foot and knackered but kept up all the same .

Hounds marked midday and terriers duly brought forward .The place was just a small earth the type we all love but not one but two terriers were entered by the pro terrier man despite questions asked by a few present ,This man was none other than a well known modern day writer .Unfortunately that practice hasn't left him but we are lead to believe otherwise in the monthly mag .Bad practice has been around for years as has bad terrier men so its up to the individual to speak out against what's not exceptable .Prelocator ,it was the done thing to wait longer before digging I would say so a dog spent longer in the ground even on a shallow spot.However the safety of the terrier was sometimes in jeopardy as was the men too for trenching on was commonplace .Anyone wishing a return to the good old days should talk to a good old boy first .The quarry and pace of life was different but so was the lot of the terrier .There are some very good youngsters in the game now that would put the whole 70s era to shame .Digging dogs have remained the same preserved by good lads but the quality of lad has changed for the better aided by better kit and better values in the main .

[Mary 352]

Attitude towards dog and quarry have greatly improved over the years, some of these so called "old timers" from the 60's 70's were hard and sometimes cruel men, animal welfare was not priority, any animal, doubling up was not frowned upon, they were only curs sure, easily replaced, results mattered. Terriers and men and quarry are definitely in better shape today.

[morton 5,367]

Attitude towards dog and quarry have greatly improved over the years, some of these so called "old timers" from the 60's 70's were hard and sometimes cruel men, animal welfare was not priority, any animal, doubling up was not frowned upon, they were only curs sure, easily replaced, results mattered. Terriers and men and quarry are definitely in better shape today.

Hard on their dogs and hard on their quarry,id concur with that,their mutts welfare was higher on the agenda than most today,they could not afford the luxury of replacing a neglected dog and they possibly were less restricted with sentiment,sentiment made for piss poor breeding and hunting practice.

[Daniel cain 42,798]

 

Thought the whole idea of working/keeping dogs was about being able to produce better than what you had? -best dog to best bitch?then imo the dogs and terriermen around to day are better than the old timers lol,like it's been said most the old boys loved to double dogs up-must be an over 50/60s thing?cant be arsed to let a dog settle so chuck in another?to lazy to dig?when the dog comes away-he does that when he's killed them-lmfao. I've met plenty that did it, and still do it now,don't get me wrong I've met one or two old boys you could learn a thing or two off.but (mostly how not to go about things)most can't be told and know it all-look down their noses ,try and discredit any thing you may suggest and my favourite one is when they try and tell you how my dogs should be working(like they would know,some f***ing darlings out there lol)-was brought up to respect the old folk,but honestly most are stuck in a time warp,hopefully when they go maybe a lot of their bad habits go with them-I live in hope ,maybe all them years ago ,doing what they pleased and wanted was the real reason that we ever had the ban?I was 24 when it was passed and never had a tug off the law before or after the ban involving working my dogs-touch wood ,been told to f**k off!!! Plenty times mind-they all bleet on about the youngsters f***ing things up mind ,if you ask them-always blame shifting another bad habit most old timers have -Age doesn't always bring the knowledge, and age dont make you any better than the next man.atb dc

 

If you need to produce better than what you had,id not breed from them.I know some of the old lads are bullshitting romantics yet many i met i learnt an awful lot from,possibly why im a bullshitting romantic.I cannot believe nearly everybody on here as never had honest stewardship from an elder and wished to own a kennel of dogs like many of them owned,i was and am still in awe of the expertise and dogmanship and skills,mainly lost now,that many of our elders possessed.The facts are that many of the places the olde lads worked are left alone now because the dogs and expertise to work them is lost,generally.

everyone who breeds a litter of working dogs surely wants to better what they have?or am I wrong?and what possible skills would the old boys have that's been lost? Other than a few that used tnt to get a dog out?personally i keep sounders and still use a tbar,maybe folks today even with locators etc have a bit more sense and respect for the dogs to be working the old rockpiles and shakeholes the oldboys worked?always liked your posts and admire your passion for the Bedlington. like I said in my first post the old timers love to discredit the young-as your own words- if you need to produce better than what you have,I would not breed from them?says it all really.atb dc

[Glyn..... 5,199]

i am now a lot older than the men i classed as old timers when i started , many of the big names around my area where poor terriermen , the only good thing about some was they could use a spade ! i went out with a few when looking for my first pup , i think the most terriers i saw running around entering some staying was 12 , but amongest those men where some good ones single handed terriers , calm men gentle with their dogs and quarry, i remember one calling round in the early 90's i had a young dog that was a real handful and to be honest as dumb as they come type of dog that would latch on and just get hammered, this chap who had bred the dogs grandmother came round after i used this dog to ground the dog looked like shit, he shock his head and said you want working terriers not fighting dogs, he had the dogs grandmother with him and we went for a dig where she held 2 in a stop end working away lovely she was 12 years old and done a ton of stuff no fuss no bother , the young dog was gone 2 digs later way to hard , so i think there have always been good terriermen its just a case of finding them or them finding you ...working terriers not fighting dogs he was so right

[sounder79 80]

All the oul fellas are turnin in their graves listening to this shit , they forgot more than yee know.

 

BREEDING ,BACKFILLING,GIFTING PUPS,NO DIGGIN CLOSE SEASON, GIVING GAME LAW , all been around donkeys years, wasnt the new crowd that came up with theses practices, they were passed down by your daddys and his daddys daddy , and thats why we have the super terrier man of today , never leaves home without his bellman and flint.

[neil cooney 10,415]

Of course they'd be turning in their graves Sounder, most of them made themselves out to be legends.

They all had the best dogs, they all had a terrier that pulled out a badger after 20 other dogs came away and they all dug trenches 200 foot long and 15 foot deep on their own.

And we'll never be able to prove otherwise.

 

It kills me to say this, but because lads will travel far for sport now and with the inter-net and mobile phones it's harder now to tell lies and get away with it than it was even 20 years ago.

In those days tales of legendary terriers and terriermen fooled everyone, nowadays the only person fooled by lies is the one telling them.

[francolin 449]

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

camcorders killed the job in 70s neil, along with the knobheads that used them atb.

[neil cooney 10,415]

 

I've always said it and a lot of lads disagree with me, but, there's a better stamp of terrier and a better stamp of terrierman now than in the past.

Plus, most of the laws we have now restricting terrierwork were brought in in the late 70s ,early 80s, well before Facebook and similar shite.

It was the deeds and methods of old that started the rot within terrierwork that we now pay for.

You hear of the legends of old when they had the freedom to do what they wanted, where they wanted. But when you sit them down, have a chat you'll usually

uncover the truth.

The terrierman of today who has reached an expert standard with good terriers in this day and age is IMO a much better man.

camcorders killed the job in 70s neil, along with the knobheads that used them atb.

 

Did they ? I've never seen home footage of digging from the 70s. The big trials that were held in Ireland were held in the 80s and there isn't even footage of them.

Badger digging was outlawed in Eire in the mid 70s and eventually in Britain in 81.

It was because of the old methods, simple as that. There was no facebook, no undercover journalists (they came in the late 80s) no i-phones and lurchers were rarely seen on digs. It was the methods used pure and simple.

My posts look like I'm being disrespectful to those who worked terriers before us, and my father worked terriers in the 50s and 60s, and at the end of the day they did what they did because it was the only way they knew how, and of course there was some outstanding terriers and men back in the day.

But IMO those who are good at working their terriers nowadays are better than those who were top of the tree back in the day.

I genuinely believe there's not a single thing that any of the so called legends of yesteryear could teach a good terrierman of today.

That doesn't mean I haven't got respect for them ,I do but there's better today, both man and terrier.