Opinions Please

[Jake w 232]

Forget experienced dogs mate . The young un will either go or not with or without seeing another go . All this does is wind it up unnecessarily.

Mate but wouldn't that leave him in the same situation if he got to an earth that looked well run or a rangy earth and the dog said no not having a dig mate I just thought that it would still leave doubts in lees mind mate

[foxdropper 17,092]

My own opinion is that a terrier needs no encouragement to work and should know what's expected .I personally like to take the young un to a spot and let him do what he's bred for ,no encouragement ,no winding up ,no praise ,no company .If your young un won't go ,its either not ready or its not for me .Obviously one outing won't tell you that but a few would tell me all I need to know .The method of allowing a pup to watch an older dog dug to is alien to me so I can't say how it pans out suffice to say I wouldn't want any pup of mine to have to get wound up before it will meet its quarry which is why I despise hole ending .Ant terrier worthy of the name will self enter in time ,a much more laid back affair .edited to say a marking dog is a big bonus here but put back when trying the newby

[Jake w 232]

My own opinion is that a terrier needs no encouragement to work and should know what's expected .I personally like to take the young un to a spot and let him do what he's bred for ,no encouragement ,no winding up ,no praise ,no company .If your young un won't go ,its either not ready or its not for me .Obviously one outing won't tell you that but a few would tell me all I need to know .The method of allowing a pup to watch an older dog dug to is alien to me so I can't say how it pans out suffice to say I wouldn't want any pup of mine to have to get wound up before it will meet its quarry which is why I despise hole ending .Ant terrier worthy of the name will self enter in time ,a much more laid back affair .edited to say a marking dog is a big bonus here but put back when trying the newby

 

Ok mate I understand an when I said experienced dog I meant as to mark up so you know if your quarry is at home mate

 

Atb Jake w

[foxdropper 17,092]

Cheers Jake ,understand .

[downsview 439]

17 months is a good age but not an age to expect miracles at,what age did his parents start and what are his litter mates doing,he's not my dog but if he was I would give him the summer to mature a bit of ratting and getting out and about forget about cubs proves nothing jmho.....if your getting short tempered or impatient that can put some dogs backwards.

[leethedog 3,071]

I am a very patient man with dogs ya can't make a dog do anything as for his sire and dam they were bushers so I was told and his siblings I have no idea

 

Edited to add joe is my first earth dog and when I got him it didn't even come to mind that not just any terrier could do the job I have a lurcher back ground and as you all know any lurcher will work to some degree

Edited February 25, 2016 by leethedog

[downsview 439]

You can start again and get a terrier from digging parents or you can persevere with Joe ime sure with patience you can have a lot of fun with him .Not all terriers make the best earth dogs even some from the best bloodlines,I wouldn't expect to much from a 17 month old dog and personally would allow for the occasional cock up while he's learning.To be blunt you can't expect to much from a dog bred from bushers.Sometimes it's about you working around the dog and also what your prepared to put up with.

[Bryan 1,361]

My own opinion is that a terrier needs no encouragement to work and should know what's expected .I personally like to take the young un to a spot and let him do what he's bred for ,no encouragement ,no winding up ,no praise ,no company .If your young un won't go ,its either not ready or its not for me .Obviously one outing won't tell you that but a few would tell me all I need to know .The method of allowing a pup to watch an older dog dug to is alien to me so I can't say how it pans out suffice to say I wouldn't want any pup of mine to have to get wound up before it will meet its quarry which is why I despise hole ending .Ant terrier worthy of the name will self enter in time ,a much more laid back affair .edited to say a marking dog is a big bonus here but put back when trying the newby

 

I couldn't agree less,( and I enjoy a lot of what you post here)

 

If you've never tried any other way you wouldn't know any better. I can see the benefit of your approach, all the blame is attached to the pup. None on the handler.

 

One of the skills I admire most in a good terrier man is in getting a dog started, be that knowing when it's mature enough to start or knowing how to best handle that individual dog. Some need to be wound up, some need winding down a little so they calm down and follow their nose, some need company the first time, some will switch on just tied at the entrance listening to another dog work or bay. Some will need a quiet word or two other a fast word of hsst,hsst. You might be very shocked if you tried it.

 

You won't know that of course and you can convince yourself and others that your one approach is the only and best approach.

 

Me I get a big kick out of starting a young dog and if it's a little bit harder to get them started I get a bigger buzz when they do go. How hard it is to start a terrier has no bearing at all on how good or bad that dog will be.

[Dabhand 887]

Bryan can you explain when you say the word company please?

[Oldandknackered 48]

i personally agree with both of you! i have owned and seen dogs which were slow to start and made proper digging tools, and i have also seen and owned dogs which self entered at an early age, no drama or fuss, just as fd describes. maybe its down to the strain or line of dog??? imo pups that self enter are a possible indication of a well bred terrier from a good strain? and terriermen that seem to be able to get most dogs going are just good knowledgeable dog men?

[downsview 439]

Please please don't gee the dog up you got enough problems without creating a false marker or rabbit digging dog jmo

[Daniel cain 42,804]

Having another dog present on couples can't hurt,don't think he ment doubling up it that's what you getting at?I agree with that post of Bryans,foxdropper how many goes would you give a dog to enter your way before you thought it was no good?genuine question?you must have exceptional dogs or maybe a lot of wastage? Curious to know not knocking everyones different, I personally tie them up and let them listen to a sensible terrier at work and then when i think they ready .i then like a young dog to mark ,go in and Find off its own back,and hopefully stay till dug.in 20 yrs I've had a few that never wanted to go no matter what I tried but never had one walk on me,that I entered my way- that was tied up and allowed to smell ,hear what's expected of the them, iv'e had one or two that were that ruff I be lucky to dig them five times in a season,personally I wont put a young dog in a stop end that some other dogs been dug to,think it gives them a false confidence from my own experience,also like to add that when a dogs young I won't ever work them sore or scabbed up,part of being a good dogman is knowing their limits imo ,if i think they have had enough then thats that,don't care a toss whos company im in or losing face,I know that when they are healed i still be digging to them and not chopping and changing like alot of lads ive met over the years.not looking for an argument just your view pal.atb dc

[Bryan 1,361]

Bryan can you explain when you say the word company please?

What bit don't you understand? I would do whatever I needed to do to get a young dog started. Or to put it another way before giving up on the dog.

Some dogs are slow eaters, put another dog near them and they'll scoff it down, some are slow to go to ground but would fly in ahead of another dog you let run at the entrance even if on a slip. For loads that'll be enough to carry them all the way to meeting the game, then that dog is started and you can progress from there or go backwards, their choice. They might still be shit, but I like to make every effort.

 

Would I enter it with another dog to get it started? I'd run it with another cat and 2 canaries if i thought it would get it to click.

 

I'm talking starting a young dog, slow starters, hard starters. Most, I open the collar they go and I dig.

 

But if they don't, I'm not stumped or concerned about anyone else's views or creeds and beliefs, I'm focused only on starting this dog in my hands and I'll fall back on my own and others experience rather than concern myself with online opinion. But I'm funny like that.

 

Bryan

Edited February 25, 2016 by Bryan

[Dabhand 887]

The doubling up bit i dont understand that i would have thought could cause more harm than good for a young dog

[Bryan 1,361]

The doubling up bit i dont understand that i would have thought could cause more harm than good for a young dog

 

If the next step would be to cull it, then I don't think it'd do it more harm than good? If it's to sell it on as "untried" or some other give it another season at the shows then by all means do that.