Who Hunts With A Springer?

[flynndog 543]

Rednecks at redbeck put a rapid mk1 I had in .22 through as a .177 telling me it's way underpowered and they can turn it up for me if I left it there .... then I asked to be shown it being chronod and pointed out the obvious lol

[bigmac 97kt 13,730]

Simon if i was closer id of gone and got your money back for you mate

 

The trouble with you is your to kind heart,d my man

 

but i think its one of the things we all like about you

 

I had to go and get £1000 back for a close family member just to days ago

 

hence i got it back with out incident

 

i was a bit peeved actually lol

 

atvbmac :thumbs:

[villaman 9,979]

Great post Simon

As for the reg contact Carl at airtech ,he makes his own reg great person to talk too

[charlie caller 3,654]

Let me tell you a story about my experience of the Regal and why I have kept it, why I love it and the kind of treatment from the industry I've had. Let me also just say I'm not a gunsmith techie type. When/if something needs doing on my guns I get my Pal Andy to sort them out and he's bloody brilliant with my springers. Not so knowledgeable about PCPs but, we can't all be clever at everything.

 

So, I was all set to buy an HW100 with a Bavarian sporter stock in left hand version. Then i was told, this is not available as a left hand option. That put me off. Though I have to admire the way the rifle was built and, I love Weihrauch's springers to bits, so, a PCP Weihrauch seemed a natural progression.

 

Then my partner Helen wanted to get into shooting and needed a rifle of her own. We had a look at many PCPs (she's just not built to haul a spring rifle all day) and Helen decided on the Daystate Huntsman Classic.

 

So that's what I bought for her. When we came to set it up for her I was really impressed with how good the Huntsman is. It is a beautiful rifle in all regards and perfect for her needs. I was so impressed how well it performed, its superb accuracy and beautiful looks and handling, I went out and bought the Regal when it became available. I hadn't heard of any bad press for it so far at that time but, hen again, I was one of the first to buy it soon after it's release. Loved it from the get-go! It had all the looks and handling of the Huntsman, supposedly, I had the newly-developed version of a rifle that had impressed me greatly with Helen's model.

 

Then, and only then do you discover what you really have The Regal has a way more pronounced power curve than the earlier Huntsman we have. Then I start learning all this malarkey about sweetspots and power curves and Christ knows what else.

 

It didn't soften my heart much when I took the gun to a lad called Chris at REDBECK SHOOTING SUPPLIES nr Wakefield West Yorkshire. He took the gun away to the workshop for about ten minutes and returned with it and showed me a chrono-print-out on his mobile phone of the rifle performing at 11.3 ft/lbs. I should have had alarm bells ringing why there was not a proper paper print out but, we live and learn!

 

That was also, the exact figure Daystate had given me for the Regal (on paper!) when it had been to them for servicing and retuning after I found the power was so low after filling it. So it was probably never touched but run down to 160 Bar and there it performs at 11.3. Not that the smart-arses there had the common courtesy to explain matters why. They had it for two months and probably just run it down when they could be bothered

 

So this Chris guy at Red-Beck convinces me that he's removed the anti tamper and opened the rifle up and retuned the rifle to 11.3 foot pounds. That's all I really want to hear and he charges me £26.00 for the job. Now being an ignorant fellow of mechanical workings I took him at his word and paid the bill in cash in the shop. MUG!

 

Then I move to Lincolnshire, gain a couple of permissions and filled and tested my Regal on my 50-metre garden range....Only to find it was performing way under power again! (I know. Sweetspots and power-curves!) But I was not so well informed at this time.

 

So I take the rifle to MGR shooting shop in nearby Woodhall Spa and the guy there immediately shows me the anti-tamper is in place. He took the rifle out of the stock and we saw, lo and behold, Daystate's anti-tamper sticker seals in place. Clear to me, now, this Chris has not done what he has charged me for! Nor has Daystate for that matter it would seem, for the two months they had the rifle.

 

So after finding the Regal performing at 10.3 ft/lbs, this lad puts the rifle on the chrono and fires shot after shot till the pressure on the cylinder indicates about half the amount and VOILA! The Regal magically starts performing at 11.3 ft/lbs A whole 1=ft/lb difference.

 

So now I've learned all about the Regal's sweetspot at about 160 bar and for being mugged for £26 quid for my ignorance!

 

So, having established where the rifle performs it's best work, I take it out hunting and it performs absolutely superbly. It's bagged a hell of a lot of rabbits and hit hard at some decent ranges. All I ask of any air rifle really, particularly one that has cost me £800. The most I've ever spent on a rifle for myself.

 

It is an honestly fine rifle in my experience now I have the sweetspot sussed out.. Because I know a great deal from shooting spring rifles all my life, I know at least, how to optimise the accuracy performance of a PCP and this Regal of mine is a bloody beauty!

 

But, because you need to spend more money to put a way-better regulator in it than Daystate have deemed worthy of a rifle at this price, it is a lemon! Until you get used to it's little foibles. Lemon might sound harsh, but any air rifle costing this much money new, has to work a lot more efficiently than this Regal does, straight out the box from the factory.

 

I will get the Reg. work done when, the good man at XTX Air isn't up to his arse in orders. (Sign of a good man actually.. He's busy!).

 

And as for my spring rifles? My Weihrauch HW77, HW80 and HW97K are amazing shooting rifles. As reliable as an air rifle gets and as accurate as it's possible to get. And that's why I love owning them and shooting with them. Best of all, they do not or have never needed the runaround faff, sweetspots and charging air bottles that come with PCPs costing nearly twice as much. A couple of springs between them over the years is all they've needed!

 

All the best and thanks for reading my tale. But it's all true..

 

And in future, the next person in a gun shop I find conning me for my ignorances, I'm taking him-her and the case to the Police and the courts! I don't really care if such people lose their livelihoods like this. To be perfectly honest though, I really feel the British gun trade needs to get a set of honest ethics and trade more honestly in future. I don't need another air rifle and I'm not going to spend any more cash on one anytime too soon.

 

Simon/Pianoman.

Yes good read there Simon, very interesting for me, as a good pal of mine bought an old (prob late 90s) mint Daystate mirage a few months back, it is one of the most accurate air rifles I have ever seen, very quiet, smooth, and very light, he asked me to chrono it for him, which I did, after trying several pellet types through it(all of which it shot with superb accuracy) when full, the most I could get out of it was 10.3 ftlbs with Bisley magnums,which it loves, he asked me to strip it and adjust the power closer to the legal limit, imagine his surprise, when I dropped the air pressure down to 150bar, and it produced,yes you have guessed it Simon,11.3 ftlbs so imagine altering it to say 11.5ftlb on a full charge, run it back down to 150bar and your looking at a serious amount of trouble, it would have probably gone to 12.5 + now I would imagine a new mirage was not a cheap rifle back in its day, probably comparable to yours Simon like for like, and twenty years later, they still dont fit a regulator to very very expensive air rifles, it makes me wonder how many innocent,but ignorant people have been unaware of this sweet spot, power curve malarky over the years, and have been in possession of a rifle over the limit.

[pianoman 3,584]

GOOD GOD THAT'S ASTONISHING CHARLIE CALLER. Twenty odd years between two Daystate rifles and both produce exactly a 1-ft/lb power curve at the same figure energy levels. Perhaps Daystate have long since cottoned onto the fact of sending out their air rifles with a potential for running illegally hot and play safe with low-power settings. That I can understand.

 

But why they don't do the job right and fit an efficient regulator, that keeps the power consistantly and safely at reasonable energy output? It is just penny pinching for maximum profit, it would seem. It's a crying shame because, as you've seen yourself Charlie, the guns are superbly accurate, sweetly balanced air rifles and they are not exactly cheap. It's a shame thay are left without a decent regulator.

When no-one buys their products anymore because of these issues will not surpise me in the least. and that will be a shame for a British company with British jobs at stake.

 

We have already lost Webley and BSA to foreign competition because their managements were incompetent bean counters who stupidly thought they could save money and increase profits by producing cheap guns built from rubbish metals. We voted with our wallets and bought Weihrauchs and Feinwerkbau Sports from Germany!

 

BSA is now wholly-owned by Spanish giants GAMO and the days of the quality BSA used to make their guns with, are over. I have a strong patriotic streak and would love to buy an all-British gun that can match anything from Germany and all and support the British gun-making industry. But it seems they are not supporting me and you.

 

Do any other PCP air rifle owners have similar issues with their HW100s S410s BSA R10s and so on? I don't hear or read much complaints of the level Daystate seem to be getting.

Edited March 11, 2016 by pianoman

[charlie caller 3,654]

My thoughts exactly Simon when I read your post, twenty years and no change you could not make it up when you consider how much a regulator,either made in house or out sourced,bought in bulk would have cost them, very little I suspect, it really is a crying shame, and rather pathetic,if it was not for the overseas market, I suspect Daystate would have either gone bust, or had to have a radical shake up long ago, spoiling the ship for an hapenth of tar springs to mind.

[random 659]

Simon not to nit pick but air arms are still a reputable company supplying quality products? the rest of what you say,especially the mirage/huntsman part is very interesting...

Edited March 11, 2016 by random

[pianoman 3,584]

I know Air Arms are going strongly Random. And I have their beautiful Mk.III TX200HC .177 still going strong here. but it was the memories I have of fine air rifles from Webley and BSA that lead me to name those two companies. Webley particularly made some beautiful quality air rifles. You got quality Beech stocks that were elegantly proportioned, at least to my eyes. White spacers, grip caps and the blueing was absolutely gorgeous. Really deep and lustrous.

 

Webley Osprey, Stingray, Vulcan, Excel. Omega, Tomahawk and their FAC Patriot were all excellent spring rifles for their time. Their PCP Axsor was an Airgun Of The Year in 2000, I think. The Raider 2-shot is a little beauty.

 

Such a shame, really, to see this fine old English gunmaker is nothing more than a memory of my younger days. I heard someplace a while back, that a new management team was going to rejuvinate the brand. I'm still waiting but, not holding my breath.

 

If I had the collateral capital I'd love to see if it could be resurrected and make a spring rifle that could match anything the Germans can do. An underlever with a hidden lever in the stock like the Prosport, fixed barrel supreme accuracy and the elegant looks and handling of a classical full-bore sporting rifle.

 

Ahhh if only ....

[random 659]

See your point simon,from a nostalgic point of view,i loved my vulcan and lightning,would have both back in a heartbeat and did as good with those as any since,really is a shame how times have changed and maybe a good old british spring gun revolution could be roused??

[pianoman 3,584]

There it is Random but yes, nostaglia is a powerful thing in many things but, particularly so with shooting ans hunting with a an air rifle.

 

Remember how good that Vulcan and Lightning was, how good it felt when you were out in the fresh air and the scent of the fields and you were taking rabbits and pigeons with your Webley rifle? because it was a quality rifle and you were on top form with it? It's like the times I've had with my guns from the past and the German Weihrauchs I now have. My HW80 .22 alone, is 17-18 years old and utterly irreplaceable for the memories invested in it.

 

That's what we want from our sport. Great moments making great memories from great rifles and fantastic shooting days and evenings.

 

I sometimes wonder if the trade has lost sight of that valuable commodity in this sport; along with some great names that made it?

 

Oh well

[Greyman 25,165]

I still hunt with a baa Mercury from the 1970s if that helps the more nostalgic among you, only downside it probably cost me more money to make it shoot nicely, than to just go out and buy a more modern gun, but the pleasure I get from shooting it more than makes up for the cost of building it,

[Daz 7 563]

GOOD GOD THAT'S ASTONISHING CHARLIE CALLER. Twenty odd years between two Daystate rifles and both produce exactly a 1-ft/lb power curve at the same figure energy levels. Perhaps Daystate have long since cottoned onto the fact of sending out their air rifles with a potential for running illegally hot and play safe with low-power settings. That I can understand.

 

But why they don't do the job right and fit an efficient regulator, that keeps the power consistantly and safely at reasonable energy output? It is just penny pinching for maximum profit, it would seem. It's a crying shame because, as you've seen yourself Charlie, the guns are superbly accurate, sweetly balanced air rifles and they are not exactly cheap. It's a shame thay are left without a decent regulator.

 

When no-one buys their products anymore because of these issues will not surpise me in the least. and that will be a shame for a British company with British jobs at stake.

 

We have already lost Webley and BSA to foreign competition because their managements were incompetent bean counters who stupidly thought they could save money and increase profits by producing cheap guns built from rubbish metals. We voted with our wallets and bought Weihrauchs and Feinwerkbau Sports from Germany!

 

BSA is now wholly-owned by Spanish giants GAMO and the days of the quality BSA used to make their guns with, are over. I have a strong patriotic streak and would love to buy an all-British gun that can match anything from Germany and all and support the British gun-making industry. But it seems they are not supporting me and you.

 

Do any other PCP air rifle owners have similar issues with their HW100s S410s BSA R10s and so on? I don't hear or read much complaints of the level Daystate seem to be getting.

Simon my dear Pal,

 

Sorry to hear of your PCP Woes, Haven`t done any shooting in over 2 years.

Had some lovely guns in the past i.e Theoben Rapid Mk 2, Rapid TTR, hw100, Daystate Airwolf.

Kalibr Cricket And most of the classy springers HW, Airarms.

Just getting back into shooting after My sabatical Found the best PCP for Me which shocked Me,

Never was a big fan of Daystate but picked up a mint Panther in .22 cal and it has blown me away.

out of all the pcps i`ve had this for Me is the most consistant and comfortable rifle i`ve had, And that electronic trigger

is a dream.

Must admit the previous Airwolf was a Dog though bloody inaccurate with mags fitted only shot it single shot, this Panther though no such problems and the Reg is spot on giving superb 11.4 ft/lbs consistant shots.

 

atvb Daz 7 the prodical shooter.

 

[pianoman 3,584]

DAZ 7 WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN LADDIE?!!

 

Hello there dear fellow! . It's wierd as I was only just thinking about you today and wondering why I haven't heard from you in ages. And here you are, back with a new gun. Did you sell the .25 rifle you had? I really enjoyed your hunting posts about using it at sub-12 power. it's great to see you back shooting again mate. That Panther looks really nicely set-up. Was the regulator it has, an after-market choice or factory built as part of the production rifle?

Never heard anyone speak so low of the Airwolf as you do here. Daystate really have to sort these inconsistent quality issues between their marks of guns.

Truly, I have had a rather mixed experience with my PCP ventures into the Daystate Regal .177 I have. I was bitterly disappointed with my first impressions of it. To the point that I didn't really bother with it for about the first 8 months after getting it back from Daystate for retuning and service. It has a steep power-curve and the sweetspot is about the 150-Bar mark. But, rather than sell it for a loss, I persisited with it. And once you get to know all that bloody power malarkey, it is really a superb rifle I'm loving shooting with. The earlier Huntsman Classic .177 I bought for Helen is a much better rifle out the box. But, I will invest in a quality regulator for my Regal and that should turn this rifle into a real stunning performer. It's incredibly accurate and really lovely in the aim and handling as it looks. When it's on the money, I really love how well it performs.

 

BUT It'll never replace my Weihrauch and TX200HC spring rifles but, it's nice to have the luxury of owning and experiencing shooting with both types of action.

 

GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK HERE LADDIE!

 

All the very best for you and your return to the fold dear friend.

Simon

[Daz 7 563]

DAZ 7 WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN LADDIE?!!

 

Hello there dear fellow! . It's wierd as I was only just thinking about you today and wondering why I haven't heard from you in ages. And here you are, back with a new gun. Did you sell the .25 rifle you had? I really enjoyed your hunting posts about using it at sub-12 power. it's great to see you back shooting again mate. That Panther looks really nicely set-up. Was the regulator it has, an after-market choice or factory built as part of the production rifle?

 

Never heard anyone speak so low of the Airwolf as you do here. Daystate really have to sort these inconsistent quality issues between their marks of guns.

 

Truly, I have had a rather mixed experience with my PCP ventures into the Daystate Regal .177 I have. I was bitterly disappointed with my first impressions of it. To the point that I didn't really bother with it for about the first 8 months after getting it back from Daystate for retuning and service. It has a steep power-curve and the sweetspot is about the 150-Bar mark. But, rather than sell it for a loss, I persisited with it. And once you get to know all that bloody power malarkey, it is really a superb rifle I'm loving shooting with. The earlier Huntsman Classic .177 I bought for Helen is a much better rifle out the box. But, I will invest in a quality regulator for my Regal and that should turn this rifle into a real stunning performer. It's incredibly accurate and really lovely in the aim and handling as it looks. When it's on the money, I really love how well it performs.

 

BUT It'll never replace my Weihrauch and TX200HC spring rifles but, it's nice to have the luxury of owning and experiencing shooting with both types of action.

 

GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK HERE LADDIE!

 

All the very best for you and your return to the fold dear friend.

Simon

Glad to be Back Simon,

 

Regulated as standard and is truely lovely to shoot.

sold all My guns except a Kalibr cricket has it was in bits due to all the washers being replaced and setting reg pressure correctly, if it hadn`t have been in bits at the time i would have sold that as well.

So had 2 year break from shooting and forums till i felt the urge to shoot,

slowly shooting more than once a week but not feeling as keen to shoot like i use to yet.

 

ATVB Master Springer shooter