Bloody Sheep!!!

[neil cooney 10,415]

Shoot the fecking thing im ashamed to say that ur welsh wanting to shoot a dog because u just don't teach a dog a harsh lesson youll deprive a prob good dog of having a good happy life what a arse hole any fool can shoot a dog not everyone can make one

My advice to you foxbolter is to quit before you make a bigger idiot of yourself.

Deprive a good dog of having a good life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So in your opinion locking a dog up for two weeks and then thrashing it with a pipe is a good life ????

I'd be having a laugh at you if it wasn't such a serious issue.

What makes me laugh is that you made a half decent post on the Hounds forum and then come on here uttering pure cruel rubbish.

I wonder do you even believe your own advice. I doubt it ,which even makes it more serious as some other idiot of your IQ might take your advice.

 

Anyone who thinks that there's any other sure fire 100% effective methods of breaking to all livestock other than familiarity, familiarity and familiarity is fooling no one else other than themselves.

[foxbolter 447]

Good post neil

[foxbolter 447]

Just remember this topic is about a dog not a pup that is unpredictable when it will attack sheep and obviously has no respect for its owner when he shouts is name by keeping the dog in its kennel will predict it will chase sheep when you take iy out so you can correct it

[nothernlite 18,026]

Each to there own foxbolter over the top can always remember some one of this site before giving a mate of mine advice his dog had stopped retrieving his answer was knock f**k out of it and it will soon no who's boss ffs

[terryd 8,042]

I still vote for the long line option lol and get around them often and close and sooner or later one will run from under its nose and it will make a bid for it. Then you can correct it but because you have caught it in the act before its got going you can be more reasonable about it. Rather than doing half a marathon trying to catch the dog all red faced and angry and the dogs ramped up because its just had time of its life. Do that for a month or too then the familiarity kicks in hopefully and things start to turn then off lead the other side of a fence for starters then small fields etc and proceed I guess.

But I have just take 12 months to get my dog to walk tidy on a lead so maybe not the best to take notice of but I got there in the end

As a young fella if I couldn't get some thing done in ten minutes I didn't bother but now I am happy to take what ever time I need

Edited July 31, 2015 by terryd

[optimus 447]

Whatever you do you must do it quickly. Electric collar can work but whatever you do it must rock that dogs world to associate sheep with a very negative experience. Some dogs are broken easily to stock. Some need tougher handling but its a mistake to think because you walk a pup through sheep on a leash they are ok as thats a different scenario to sheep running away from the dog THATS WHAT TRIGGERS THE DOG THE PREY INSTINCT OF THE CHASE & THE PANIC IT SENSES FROM SHEEP!! I used to herd them into the fields corner & allow them to run past my dog but simply walking through sheep or along the fenceline is not enough. Once a mate of mine thought he had worries over stock & even had a lamb in the the back of his estate car with the dogs &i warned him that it was a start however the scenario may be different when seeing the same lamb panic & run. Sadly i was proven correct & he was issued with a warrant for a dogs destruction when the farmer went to the police.

Breaking to stock is the same as anything that is vital in a working dog in that it must be done on a daily or regular basis to imprint on the animal & thus become second nature to the animal. Jumping is a comparison in that it must be practiced to a stage where the dog does it without thinking . Come to a fence, jump a fence. Come upon sheep, ignore sheep!! However jumping wont result in a farmer shooting your dog,or any charges for failure to control your dog..

Many pups have the daft occasion to chase sheep from a purely fun aspect & as the handler you must come down on that hard because when older the chase is more about the kill than the fun. Having a sheep down & drawing blood is a different scenario as that is often the end of the road.

Perhaps you need to revise how you handle breaking to stock whilst training a pup & with it occurring twice in a row it seems a possibility. However you are looking for advice here not a trial .

Whatever happens you must come down on behavior such as this like a ton of bricks & perhaps put at risk some of the bond between you & the dog with heavier handling in a measured capacity. Losing your temper means losing control & that serves neither you or the dog.

However in balance & before you resort to putting the animal down a heavier hand or a training collar may be worth trying... Speaking in general in dealing with a dog at this stage it tends to be the endgame but all hope is not gone if you act now. Practically its working career is over unless you stop this behavior or you can avoid contact with sheep. Speaking for myself up here in Scotland you have more chance avoiding rain.

Good luck

Edited July 31, 2015 by optimus

[Maximus Ferret 2,055]

Well put Optimus.

[optimus 447]

I think i should perhaps add that most if not all lurchermen will have encountered this problem in some form or another, i certainly have....

However in reading that you have more than just 1 dog i think you have been pretty damn lucky to have escaped without serious incident so far. Sometime`s the dog ignores them wont wash when answering the farmer or police when it decides not to ignore them. Also quite frankly when 1 has a sheep down the rest tend to join in particulary when they are out of sight it. Often it tends to be as bugs bunny put it "dog pile on the rabbit" or in this case the sheep.

Seriously consider the fact that these 2 dogs you have reared may have been influenced by a kennel mate. Being able to call a dog off if you are there means the dog has some realisation that sheep are a no go yet still does it. Dogs deal with association &when habit becomes a dogs behaviour thats simply a timebomb when they are out of sight

[oldred58 340]

Shoot the fecking thing and don't have another dog. Two dogs gone exactly the same way. I would seriously consider if you are competent enough to train a dog.

 

TC

well said this slte gets better all the time

[rodders85 6]

I don't think the dogs in question will have had anywhere near the amount of training required, not just stock breaking but everything else too. Im just a beginner myself but I'm starting to realise and listen to others on how much time and effort you have to put into dog to have an obedient reliable worker. It's not a case of well I walked it on the lead past some fields with sheep in for a week and there ready for release. it takes alot more, and more on top of that if you've skipped on early obedience. My pup broke it's leg before Christmas so I am just starting getting him trained now,and am no rush to get him out until I know he's solid in every way including stock breaking. Im finding it difficult in rushing things and thinking hrs ready for the next steps but I have to stop myself.

Does anyone think it's a problem letting a dog have a slip at a rabbit before stock breaking. Im just a beginner myself but I would say if you haven't taught a dog what it isn't allowed to chase and catch before letting it go and chase and catch something, surely it's harder for the dog to understand and learn. Not sure if that's what's happened but I wouldn't do it. My advice stop trying to stock break and go back to the start. Skip this season if you have to and get your dogs trained to a high standard in the basics. Then when you're 100% with recall,sit,stay,heal move on again with stock breaking. Don't let them see another sheep until you can do that. Dropping your dog while calling back will help along with dropping when sending for a retrieve, getting these at 100% obedience may help when it comes to getting them on a long line around sheep as he will be better at listening to you. I know it's never 100% with any dog but it has to be as close as. Also prey drive will come in to play which will make it harder still for the dog to listen.

That's what I think anyhow.

[morton 5,367]

I don't think the dogs in question will have had anywhere near the amount of training required, not just stock breaking but everything else too. Im just a beginner myself but I'm starting to realise and listen to others on how much time and effort you have to put into dog to have an obedient reliable worker. It's not a case of well I walked it on the lead past some fields with sheep in for a week and there ready for release. it takes alot more, and more on top of that if you've skipped on early obedience. My pup broke it's leg before Christmas so I am just starting getting him trained now,and am no rush to get him out until I know he's solid in every way including stock breaking. Im finding it difficult in rushing things and thinking hrs ready for the next steps but I have to stop myself.

Does anyone think it's a problem letting a dog have a slip at a rabbit before stock breaking. Im just a beginner myself but I would say if you haven't taught a dog what it isn't allowed to chase and catch before letting it go and chase and catch something, surely it's harder for the dog to understand and learn. Not sure if that's what's happened but I wouldn't do it. My advice stop trying to stock break and go back to the start. Skip this season if you have to and get your dogs trained to a high standard in the basics. Then when you're 100% with recall,sit,stay,heal move on again with stock breaking. Don't let them see another sheep until you can do that. Dropping your dog while calling back will help along with dropping when sending for a retrieve, getting these at 100% obedience may help when it comes to getting them on a long line around sheep as he will be better at listening to you. I know it's never 100% with any dog but it has to be as close as. Also prey drive will come in to play which will make it harder still for the dog to listen.

That's what I think anyhow.

Good post,when i think ive stock broken a sapling,i go through the training process again and often a third time,then its a case of topping up the training when the mutt is out and about in the field.My pups will be hunting and catching before and during their education,id expect them to be fully broken to stock in their first season,then ill refresh the safest of dogs when lambs are at foot,lambs have been known to puzzle some dogs.One thing i USED to do with mutts,especially saplings,was refresh them around sheep after they had been in contact with bambi.Id not over educate a dog with to much command structure though,it can make them robotic and to reliant on the owner for direction.

[rodders85 6]

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

[Welsh_red 4,306]

I dont have hunting dogs but would it be useful to rent a field for a while and buy a few sheep so u got a place to train them without fear of the shotgun. If this is a expensive option ignore me

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

I dont have hunting dogs but would it be useful to rent a field for a while and buy a few sheep so u got a place to train them without fear of the shotgun. If this is a expensive option ignore me

My old man has got a farm and I would like to do this but wouldn't know where to start regards sourcing sheep or how much they would cost.

[morton 5,367]

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

I spent many an hour in the company of and watching a very good trainer of working and trial sheepdogs.The things he could do with his charges held me spellbound and i put all this new found knowledge into 3 pups i bred,by the time they were 8 months old i had them retrieving,waiting,in sight or out of,moving left,right,forward and behind,running to a gate and waiting etc.,all independant of each other.The bloody pups were a joy to behold,alas i ruined 2 of them,when i got around to the serious stage of their education,the chase and catch,they were totally dependant on me for command and nearly useless as ratching about dogs that needed their instincts to solve some of the scenario,s they encountered,they ended up with lads that made use of them for lamping,the 3rd one,the only bitch fared better,yet was a pale shadow of the dogs it was bred from.I now train them with the most basic of command structure,the rest they are better learning themselves,when its needed.