The Ultimate Duffus trap & (D)Evolution Of The Duffus Trap

[earth-thrower 490]

I too considered this, but we cant stop 'the tide' now,...lol (sadly) i suppose also,the amount of people involved in molecatching nowadays,could help justify to a manufacturer, that its worth trying to produce a better trap ? Its 'desirability' (hopefully) would generate sales,and could ensure a decent 'output'.

 

Edited February 27, 2015 by earth-thrower

[earth-thrower 490]

I too considered this, but we cant stop 'the tide' now,...lol (sadly) i suppose also,the amount of people involved in molecatching nowadays,could help justify to a manufacturer, that its worth trying to produce a better trap ? Its 'desirability' (hopefully) would generate sales,and could ensure a decent 'output',for the producer ?

 

Sorry, this is in response to " Nicepix " comments, about "joe public" buying the 'new' trap,....

[earth-thrower 490]

 

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

 

That's a fair point Nicepix and one that I myself have wrestled with for a few years

 

The thing is, a determined amateur will always find a way of doing it themselves. They can buy several DVDs, books, book on one of the many courses available or even, dare I say it, read this forum.

 

It won't make them molecatchers

 

Another advantage of a company like FP taking this on is that they don't supply in large volumes to wholesalers or garden centres; which is the main source of traps for those determined amateurs.

 

The fact is, there is more than enough information out there to make traps workable already. Having a trap from one supplier that doesn't require ten minutes fettling before you can actually use it will make little or no difference to those of us running large numbers of traps and providing a professional service

 

I'd personally be more worried about the people selling training courses off the back of this 'dying art', writing books about the simplicity of molecatching or romanticising the lifestyle with films than a company that is willing to make a trap that's actually more like the original that was easily available to anyone for fifty odd years

 

 

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

 

That's a fair point Nicepix and one that I myself have wrestled with for a few years

 

The thing is, a determined amateur will always find a way of doing it themselves. They can buy several DVDs, books, book on one of the many courses available or even, dare I say it, read this forum.

 

It won't make them molecatchers

 

Another advantage of a company like FP taking this on is that they don't supply in large volumes to wholesalers or garden centres; which is the main source of traps for those determined amateurs.

 

The fact is, there is more than enough information out there to make traps workable already. Having a trap from one supplier that doesn't require ten minutes fettling before you can actually use it will make little or no difference to those of us running large numbers of traps and providing a professional service

 

I'd personally be more worried about the people selling training courses off the back of this 'dying art', writing books about the simplicity of molecatching or romanticising the lifestyle with films than a company that is willing to make a trap that's actually more like the original that was easily available to anyone for fifty odd years

 

I think your right on this, Matt.

[Nicepix 5,650]

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

[Matt 160]

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

I've never suppressed posts on here about how to set mole traps etc. If anything, I've always tried to help folks out, often via PM.

 

Like many other molecatchers, I get frustrated by certain people selling training courses, DVD's, books etc based on the theory that molecatchers are a rare breed, that are somehow in short supply.

 

In fact, as I pointed out to one 'seller of training' recently, the fact that he couldn't find many 'traditional' molecatchers when he looked on line in 2006 didn't mean they didn't exist; just that they weren't 'online' or advertising themselves in the conventional manner.

 

The other significant factor in that deeply flawed theory was that the fact that people chose to use Strychnine rather than trap didn't mean they couldn't trap

 

Anyway, we are veering off topic here

 

The point in question is whether it will damage those of us who catch moles for reward if one manufacturer decides to make a trap that was available to anyone with 2/6 in their back pocket 40 years ago. My personal opinion is that it'll make little or no difference. Let's face it, they could buy a standard FP trap at present that comes with detailed instructions on how to tune it up.

 

Some of us here are quite passionate about this issue. Myself and Mr Wasp have been discussing the possibility of making a more exact replica of the Duffus trap for at least four years now, and we've got a reliable trap manufacturer, with a proven track record for this type of engineering on board now, so let's just wait and see what happens eh?

 

In the meantime, please can we keep this thread on topic If anyone wants to discuss the rights and wrongs of training people or giving advice, then either PM me direct, or start a fresh topic

[earth-thrower 490]

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

It will take more than a "ready to use" mole trap,for alot of 'novices',who want to try & catch their own,to be instantly successful,id bet ?

[earth-thrower 490]

 

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

It will take more than a "ready to use" mole trap,for alot of 'novices',who want to try & catch their own,to be instantly successful,id bet ?

 

A fair proportion will try & fail (for various reasons), then the moleman, will still get a shout,...lol

[Tiercel 6,986]

 

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

It will take more than a "ready to use" mole trap,for alot of 'novices',who want to try & catch their own,to be instantly successful,id bet ?

 

I

 

 

 

I don't see how Matt can make that statement and at the same time try and suppress any posts about how to set a trap. If knowledge doesn't make you a mole catcher then why all the secret squirrel stuff?

 

Tuning a trap, particularly a Duffus type, has been the difference between the amateur and the pro' for quite a few years.

It will take more than a "ready to use" mole trap,for alot of 'novices',who want to try & catch their own,to be instantly successful,id bet ?

 

A fair proportion will try & fail (for various reasons), then the moleman, will still get a shout,...lol

 

I was just about to answer when your last post came on the screen.

 

I have never set a mole trap in my life, yet from what I have read and the videos on you tube, I am confident I could set a mole trap. That is where the confidence ends though. Any person just following a video could set a passable trap, but it is the why and where that is the secret, thats what catches the moles not the trap setting.

 

Those are things that you could not teach anyone, they have to be able to work it out for themselves. To be able to look at a field and say I know how many moles are here, where they are coming from and how many traps I need for the job.

 

TC

[Nicepix 5,650]

If you make a trap that is ready to go straight out of the box you will have far more house holders using those traps to a greater degree of efficiency than at present. Anyone can find out how to tune a trap, but I'll bet that not many do and even fewer do it to a good standard. And if you put a badly tuned trap in a tunnel, no matter how carefully the odds are it will be unsuccessful.

 

Also, the cost of removing the burrs and swarf from trap mechanisms will impact on the cost of traps as there will be a greater degree of manual work involved. And tooling costs to work on stainless will also add to the end price. Add that to the substantial price of making a trap out of stainless in the UK and I'll be prepared to bet that it would put the RRP beyond that many would be prepared to pay.

 

Rather than run to the expense of tooling up to copy a one hundred year old trap I'm pretty sure that if FP simply reverted to their original Ultimate everybody would be happy.

[Matt 160]

Rather than run to the expense of tooling up to copy a one hundred year old trap I'm pretty sure that if FP simply reverted to their original Ultimate everybody would be happy.

I'm absolutely certain they wouldn't

 

Are you seriously suggesting they shouldn't make a better trap just in case householders get hold of them?

 

In case you missed it, FP now include a leaflet with every order with instructions on how to tune traps

 

I'm 100% with you about having a stainless trap with a barrel of 60mm width but I also think that those holes through which the trigger wires pass need to be smaller

 

Everyone will have the choice; if and when this project gets off the ground You may be able to buy the historically correct version, made with modern materials (stainless) or the standard version, or even, dare I say it, the soft as putty shite currently being pumped out by BR.

[outandabout 27]

If you make a trap that is ready to go straight out of the box you will have far more house holders using those traps to a greater degree of efficiency than at present. Anyone can find out how to tune a trap, but I'll bet that not many do and even fewer do it to a good standard. And if you put a badly tuned trap in a tunnel, no matter how carefully the odds are it will be unsuccessful.

 

Also, the cost of removing the burrs and swarf from trap mechanisms will impact on the cost of traps as there will be a greater degree of manual work involved. And tooling costs to work on stainless will also add to the end price. Add that to the substantial price of making a trap out of stainless in the UK and I'll be prepared to bet that it would put the RRP beyond that many would be prepared to pay.

 

Rather than run to the expense of tooling up to copy a one hundred year old trap I'm pretty sure that if FP simply reverted to their original Ultimate everybody would be happy.

That may be so, but on ALL my jobs where the customer has 'had a go' they've bought chinese 'tin plate' traps. They cannot hope to catch anything, even if they set them right and in the right place. The garden centres & online outlets are unlikely to stock a UK made premium product because of price and lack of appeal to the mass market. I don't think there's much danger of us losing out on jobs because of this. (I hope anyway )

 

Tiercel has hit the nail on the head in what he says, and this further protects us from the public catching their own moles

 

I've got no problem with a +/- 100 year old design. The mole hasn't changed since, and the design was right first time. Maybe they'll cost more, but I'd be happy to pay the extra.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Matt
To correct quote marks

[earth-thrower 490]

If you make a trap that is ready to go straight out of the box you will have far more house holders using those traps to a greater degree of efficiency than at present. Anyone can find out how to tune a trap, but I'll bet that not many do and even fewer do it to a good standard. And if you put a badly tuned trap in a tunnel, no matter how carefully the odds are it will be unsuccessful.

 

Also, the cost of removing the burrs and swarf from trap mechanisms will impact on the cost of traps as there will be a greater degree of manual work involved. And tooling costs to work on stainless will also add to the end price. Add that to the substantial price of making a trap out of stainless in the UK and I'll be prepared to bet that it would put the RRP beyond that many would be prepared to pay.

 

Rather than run to the expense of tooling up to copy a one hundred year old trap I'm pretty sure that if FP simply reverted to their original Ultimate everybody would be happy.

Householders, gardeners,etc "using those traps to a greater degree of efficiency" , ? possibly, not necessarily automatically, though.The options already there,for them anyway.Theres another failrly well known gentleman, offering tuition, & pre-tuning traps for all customers,before they buy off him.

Edited February 27, 2015 by earth-thrower

[heritage 202]

I'm no mole catcher but I've been following this topic with interest,..

In all honesty I think most of its contributors don't appreciate how little work goes into producing things such as the body of a duffus trap.... If there is a hole that happens to be a couple off mm too big then the time it takes to correct is a matter of seconds and the cost minimal....

You have to consider just how far modern manufacturing has progressed over the last few decades....

If manufacturers aren't inclined to change things such as hole diameters then it's possible that they just don't want too...

[Matt 160]

 

 

 

If anyone would be up for a conference call on Skype (if it's possible?) to discuss this face to face (well, online anyway) then drop me a PM and I'll see if we can set it up.

[earth-thrower 490]

 

Rather than run to the expense of tooling up to copy a one hundred year old trap I'm pretty sure that if FP simply reverted to their original Ultimate everybody would be happy.

I'm absolutely certain they wouldn't

 

Are you seriously suggesting they shouldn't make a better trap just in case householders get hold of them?

 

In case you missed it, FP now include a leaflet with every order with instructions on how to tune traps

 

I'm 100% with you about having a stainless trap with a barrel of 60mm width but I also think that those holes through which the trigger wires pass need to be smaller

 

Everyone will have the choice; if and when this project gets off the ground You may be able to buy the historically correct version, made with modern materials (stainless) or the standard version, or even, dare I say it, the soft as putty shite currently being pumped out by BR.

 

Well said,...lol.. I for one, wont mind paying extra, for a 'premium' trap ? (then again im not going to need hundreds, like some) ha ha ha Still need dozens , though ! he he