tinytiger 822 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thought plummer, created his dog's in the nineties, or am i mistaken, or someone telling porkies id say 70s pablo but most of todays dogs would go back to a handful of dogs and bitches in the 90s and late 80s. Quote Link to post
tinytiger 822 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 WM ,what is the different dog Type outcross,your planning to use ,if you don't mind the asking ? Would you Agree, a Small JAGD..with Packing ability from a Steady line,known for this,could be an Option ?and if Viable, many years down line,would the B&T be a Problem,noticed You had bred B&T coloured Terriers in your past breeding i tried it myself a few years ago dixiefried but the bitch missed and was robbed a few months later.i.m.o they are very similar types of terrier. 2 Quote Link to post
foxdropper 17,092 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anybody serious about breeding and WORKING these dogs needs to get away from the name and think of work only.Not one person i know of that is successful at breeding a working line, is or was, concerned over colour or looks or club affiliation .To talk of not culling says it all to me as no doubt they will re-enter the gene pool down the line .Treat your stock as workers and not investments and no matter how small the gene pool and the proper use of outcrosses you will succeed .If a few of you are that concerned then get together to formulate a plan that dosnt involve colour or money .The stig is right in saying that the type as a worker is f****d if something isnt done soon .Maybe for the best as ive not seen a half decent one yet .Just for the record,IMO the use of another seperate strain, type ie Russell ,Border is not an outcross but a last ditch attempt at recreating something that is failing beyond address .To use such is to admit your hearts not in it as well as not in the type you try to better .An outcross is essentially another branch of your type that is used to enforce certain traits possessed by both.An outcross is not a last ditch attempt to save but rather a boost to whats there already .There will be backlash on this im sure but thats my takeon it . 6 Quote Link to post
neil cooney 10,415 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anybody serious about breeding and WORKING these dogs needs to get away from the name and think of work only.Not one person i know of that is successful at breeding a working line, is or was, concerned over colour or looks or club affiliation .To talk of not culling says it all to me as no doubt they will re-enter the gene pool down the line .Treat your stock as workers and not investments and no matter how small the gene pool and the proper use of outcrosses you will succeed .If a few of you are that concerned then get together to formulate a plan that dosnt involve colour or money .The stig is right in saying that the type as a worker is f****d if something isnt done soon .Maybe for the best as ive not seen a half decent one yet .Just for the record,IMO the use of another seperate strain, type ie Russell ,Border is not an outcross but a last ditch attempt at recreating something that is failing beyond address .To use such is to admit your hearts not in it as well as not in the type you try to better .An outcross is essentially another branch of your type that is used to enforce certain traits possessed by both.An outcross is not a last ditch attempt to save but rather a boost to whats there already .There will be backlash on this im sure but thats my takeon it . Good post. Quote Link to post
Cargol 302 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anybody serious about breeding and WORKING these dogs needs to get away from the name and think of work only.Not one person i know of that is successful at breeding a working line, is or was, concerned over colour or looks or club affiliation .To talk of not culling says it all to me as no doubt they will re-enter the gene pool down the line .Treat your stock as workers and not investments and no matter how small the gene pool and the proper use of outcrosses you will succeed .If a few of you are that concerned then get together to formulate a plan that dosnt involve colour or money .The stig is right in saying that the type as a worker is f****d if something isnt done soon .Maybe for the best as ive not seen a half decent one yet .Just for the record,IMO the use of another seperate strain, type ie Russell ,Border is not an outcross but a last ditch attempt at recreating something that is failing beyond address .To use such is to admit your hearts not in it as well as not in the type you try to better .An outcross is essentially another branch of your type that is used to enforce certain traits possessed by both.An outcross is not a last ditch attempt to save but rather a boost to whats there already .There will be backlash on this im sure but thats my takeon it . Well put. Quote Link to post
pablo esc 1,598 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Why bother, if you're dogs were any good you wouldn't need to out cross as you'd be losinghalf or more straight away of your blood line, and breeding of a fluke Quote Link to post
foxdropper 17,092 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 ffs you dyslexic or something . Quote Link to post
pablo esc 1,598 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Na! Your All experts, but haven't a clue Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 WM ,what is the different dog Type outcross,your planning to use ,if you don't mind the asking ? Would you Agree, a Small JAGD..with Packing ability from a Steady line,known for this,could be an Option ?and if Viable, many years down line,would the B&T be a Problem,noticed You had bred B&T coloured Terriers in your past breeding i tried it myself a few years ago dixiefried but the bitch missed and was robbed a few months later.i.m.o they are very similar types of terrier. Was that the Muchmore,JAGDS..in LOIS..? Quote Link to post
pablo esc 1,598 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stick to your plummers and leave are jagds pure, Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stick to your plummers and leave are jagds pure, JAGDS ain' t Pure... same as the rest of the Master race they were bred For Fox Terrier , Lakeland, Herding Breeds ETC ..look up their ORIGINS ... 1 Quote Link to post
p3d 879 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stick to your plummers and leave are jagds pure, JAGDS ain' t Pure... same as the rest of the Master race they were bred For Fox Terrier , Lakeland, Herding Breeds ETC ..look up their ORIGINS ... Pure as the driven (white) snow ......... The KC would love to have these on their "New Breed" list for next year. 700 terriers in the first kennel at one stage, I wonder how many went to ground? 1 Quote Link to post
Cleanspade 3,322 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 colour. why did bill brightmore keep mainly black . preferance as long as its not a priority i dont see the harm in it. (maybe i am nieve. ) there is a sort of snobbery within the breed as there is in any breed that has a passionate following. there are also some real cranks'. also as in all breeds/types. the plummer is not just a russell its a russell variant. created through using many breeds. it could be said its just an unregistered beagle cross. it has a very heavy bull influence is it maybe just a bull terrier. cross. some certainly look like small bulls. russell or patterdale to me are the most obvious choices. these breeds are also in the mix a plenty. some fair comments and good honest posts. this is an interesting subject to me. be it. keeping your stock to a high standard. or improving your stock. or trying to bring working types back from the brink it can only benefit the terriers we keep. doing nothing isnt an option to me. i still have one or two good russell types close by. but dont breed them as there is as good or better about that i could get my hands on if needed. i also have three plummers. none of these have been bred. i could have easily have jumped in with both feet and pumped out a bucket load of pups but dont see the point in indiscriminate breeding just to boost numbers. the.reason i would breed is to improve what i own. for me to enjoy out in the fields. i reserve the right to keep and breed whatever i prefare. its good to debate these things in the open on a forum that has many very experienced members amongst the chaff. 5 Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stick to your plummers and leave are jagds pure, JAGDS ain' t Pure... same as the rest of the Master race they were bred For Fox Terrier , Lakeland, Herding Breeds ETC ..look up their ORIGINS ... Pure as the driven (white) snow ......... The KC would love to have these on their "New Breed" list for next year. 700 terriers in the first kennel at one stage, I wonder how many went to ground? ALOT !!!! THEY CULLED HAAAARD !!! wonder where they got that idea from 1 Quote Link to post
Cleanspade 3,322 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stick to your plummers and leave are jagds pure, lmfao. Quote Link to post
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