Cleanspade 3,322 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN THE cmw. that champions the sporting lucas terrier as a possible outcross for the breed. i agree the breed needs an outcross program but feel that although the slt. is an obvious choice due to its relationship with the plummer. i cant help feeling an established line of working terrier is the only way to improve on whats already in the gene pool. what would you use to improve a breed keen to keep its swiss army knife reputation. as an alrounder. and why. Quote Link to post
the_stig 6,614 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN THE cmw. that champions the sporting lucas terrier as a possible outcross for the breed. i agree the breed needs an outcross program but feel that although the slt. is an obvious choice due to its relationship with the plummer. i cant help feeling an established line of working terrier is the only way to improve on whats already in the gene pool. what would you use to improve a breed keen to keep its swiss army knife reputation. as an alrounder. and why. has the sporting lucus got a big enough gene pool of the right type itself why not go back to whats been put in beagle or Russell... or the border some breeds just see out there time and the plummer imo was/is one of them theres to much of a split in the plummer fanciers ranks to do the job the way it needs doing its not a quick fix ... 3 Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 WHAT THE F**** !! HOW is the Sporting Useless.. Going to Improve ANY strain off TERRIER!!! It NEEDS IMPROVING ITSELF . Why don't All the SANE breeders of Plummer sit down..And Work out WHAT THEY REALLY WANT out of this WEE Dog ..THen SCRAP all Plummers Input along with his followers . .Use what YOU all have as a BASE...start again Re-Name it ...Maybe then you'll avoid all the Piss & Vinegar,,, Just a suggestion 10 Quote Link to post
VOON 1,313 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Well bred patterdale 2 Quote Link to post
HGN 150 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Cleanspade this article is a prank aimed at winding up Plummer terrier owners if not the clubs. The writer is a fictional character created by Siegfred Sassoon who was stylised as a fox hunter. This fictional author describes how he and his brother recently judged a Plummer terrier show (not class) and together they concluded the dogs were snipey headed. This fictional character then continues by telling how he was a friend of Brian Plummer's for 25 years spending time with him in Huddlesford, Caithness and Clyde Valley, and that Vampire failed to mate his bitch. Then we have Plummer gifting him an SLT pup which the fictional fox hunter called Andrew. He talks about the problem snipey dogs have working foxes (which might be news for a lot of people lol) and then rounds off with a clap on the back for the wise suggestion of the SLT as an outcross to the Plummer terrier as it would improve heads and so with this improve its rat killing abilities.... 1 Quote Link to post
the_stig 6,614 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Cleanspade this article is a prank aimed at winding up Plummer terrier owners if not the clubs. The writer is a fictional character created by Siegfred Sassoon who was stylised as a fox hunter. This fictional author describes how he and his brother recently judged a Plummer terrier show (not class) and together they concluded the dogs were snipey headed. This fictional character then continues by telling how he was a friend of Brian Plummer's for 25 years spending time with him in Huddlesford, Caithness and Clyde Valley, and that Vampire failed to mate his bitch. Then we have Plummer gifting him an SLT pup which the fictional fox hunter called Andrew. He talks about the problem snipey dogs have working foxes (which might be news for a lot of people lol) and then rounds off with a clap on the back for the wise suggestion of the SLT as an outcross to the Plummer terrier as it would improve heads and so with this improve its rat killing abilities.... now you`ve gone and spoilt it for us... Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 He doesn't SOUND too FICTIONAL at all..... Was he Based on a well known Afffeciado...Describes him to a Tee ..! And in his own words ..."Thee Co / Author of the PLUMMER BIBLE..." just no writting credits sadly... 1 Quote Link to post
foxdropper 17,092 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Any outcross IMO should have at least one traceable line to what you are trying to improve otherwise its guess work and will take years to prove if it was successful or not .Personally i would say in your position i would keep folding back in UNLESS there are undesirable traits you need to breed out .The gene pool of WORKING Plummers cant be that big even if you had to start again .I would never look to a type that was originally used to create ie Lucas ,beagle ,Russell.The offspring would be far removed from your ideal .Work what you have ,cull what dosnt ,fold back in to a strong stud dog.Ive a feeling not much culling occurs within the Plummer ranks though . 4 Quote Link to post
Cargol 302 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Most Plummers are not tested. Pups are bred and sold for money, nothing else is considered apart from coat pattern. Do you think the average Plummer breeder is going to Cull a pup that they know they can get £350 for? Not a chance. And there is one of the many problems facing the breed. 1 Quote Link to post
tinytiger 822 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 why would you be culling pups cargol-are you able to spot the non-workers while theyre still young. 1 Quote Link to post
Cargol 302 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I mean a young dog that has been tried and found wanting. But as for new borns if I had a litter and there was any surpluss, meaning I'd keep what I wanted and what ever my mates wanted. The rest would be culled. 2 Quote Link to post
wirral countryman 2,110 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) WM Edited June 23, 2014 by wirral countryman 10 Quote Link to post
HGN 150 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Not sure about the need to cull anything healthy when often mates have other mates who might want a pup - nothing wrong with asking a few quid for them since they should cost some money to dock, get the shots, properly feed and take time around but I see your point about the £350 price tag. WM - I am nearly sure the PTCGB weren't asked about a breeding programme toward continuing a solid working line. Another well advanced outcross is ongoing in Ireland - all working stuff - just to let you know. Like yours it has no club affiliations nor involvement. I am sure there are others. Quote Link to post
dixiefried 269 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 WM ,what is the different dog Type outcross,your planning to use ,if you don't mind the asking ? Would you Agree, a Small JAGD..with Packing ability from a Steady line,known for this,could be an Option ?and if Viable, many years down line,would the B&T be a Problem,noticed You had bred B&T coloured Terriers in your past breeding Quote Link to post
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