Horses For Courses

[tinytiger 822]

my dogs have different trates ,the little rough haired 1 is a exceptional rabbiting dog,there is nt many places a rabbit can hide without him finding them.He has bolted them from very tight gorse patches,stick piles,rock piles,and so on.I can take him ferreting he will mark rabbits to ground,mark them in walls.and real steady round nets ,ferrets .he is also a great foxing dog and runs along side our other dogs all day long ,just starting to tire out near end of day.he has bolted foxes from numerous earths..great everyday dog.

 

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now the white 1 being beagle xrussell ,just loves to go ,loves wooded areas ,gorse banks ,bracken beds etc,always on the wind ,nose down tail up,this thing can shift through woods just as fast as old charlie boy,,he will hunt rabbits ,but to me won,t commit to tight low cover,seems to tip toe through spots .but other spots he,ll fly through them,same thing horses for courses ,put him in wood with small rough dog ,they,ll both hunt ,but the white 1 is much faster at covering ground .great fox drive dog.

 

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now these things which are the beagle x cockers fly through anything ,really don,t care what cover in front of them .they ,ll go through ,over ,under ,anything.Do not like sitting still for 5 minutes,real easy to work with,.good attitude to work.will hunt anything anyway..good everyday dog and fox drive animal.

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hows it going fox-pack-is the middle picture beagle/russell by the brock dog that used to be up on here a few years back

[neil cooney 10,415]

Terriers, especially curs, can be like the loud mouth you see in a pub. A coward until he has his mates behind him.

In other words, a lot of terriers used for bushing might never go to ground until you have a few of them together and then you can end up with a fiasco. A load of terriers to ground, all pushing forward for a fox is not a nice experience. Believe me, I've seen 5 to ground at the same time and there was more damage done to back legs than noses.

Only last week I got caught out in a place I exercise terriers every week. Thought I knew it like the back of my hand and still a terrier got to ground on me. Thankfully I still had the others on couples.

Anyone who says a terrier is the best dog in covert has never seen a good springer or hound cross.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Neil Cooney,that all depends on what terriers you are using,patts and fells that are used for digging only may act as you say but a decent team of bushers used to working together are far, far better than the rubbish you describe,you need to get out more and see exactly what you're missing,I do it for a living on a daily basis and you really need to wake up to the fact that you are very limited in your thinking, WM

[neil cooney 10,415]

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

[Barry White 79]

i know of more than 1 terrier that has walked as a digging dog refused to go again, get rehomed as bushers for few years then 6yr/8yr old they decide they want a second chance to become digging dogs again lol

This sort of story boils my blood,if a terrier walks as a digging dog ,supposing it was bred as one it should be pts immediately not passed on . Lads should consider the amount of years it takes to produce a half decent dog and have respect for the dog and not f**k around.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

Well Neil that's the biggest pile of sh*t I've ever read on here and so bigoted its unreal, you're so wide of the mark its laughable, you're either pissed or smacked off your tits either way get help, I shoot and bush to lurchers everyday, I've worked lots of quality gundogs but there is nothing out there that could beat my terriers in cover, heavy or otherwise, get help or observe some better dogs, WM

[neil cooney 10,415]

LOL , jeez WM I wrote that post at 8.15 in the morning, how could I be pissed. I never, as a rule, drink before 9 am.

Your entitled to your opinion as am I.

I think by your post that you feel I've said you've got shite dogs, that's your business.

 

If a novice was to come to me and ask what would be the best type of dog or dogs for bushing ?

I stand by my answer in that if you want a good, mannerly dog that there's no risk of going to ground then IMO I would suggest (to a novice) that he get a springer (or a cocker) or try one of the small hound breeds.

 

Now where did I put my smack ???? LMAO.

[swede40 92]

 

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

Well Neil that's the biggest pile of sh*t I've ever read on here and so bigoted its unreal, you're so wide of the mark its laughable, you're either pissed or smacked off your tits either way get help, I shoot and bush to lurchers everyday, I've worked lots of quality gundogs but there is nothing out there that could beat my terriers in cover, heavy or otherwise, get help or observe some better dogs, WM

 

Maybe your observing the wrong spaniels and its you thats stuck in your own bubble i would choose a spaniel or hound cross over a terrier anyday it would piss me off greatly crawling through thick bramble to pull or dig a terrier out of rabbit burrows maybe its you thats breed blind with plummer terriers

[Bossie 90]

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

 

I agree, some sort of spaniel or hound would be the obvious choice. Altough I do feel that the mute hunting of most cockers and springers I've seen is a serious fault in a bushing dog, the hunting up close in the way cockers and springers do as well. A busher should not travel 300 yards but all the cockers and springers I've worked with work to close to the handler for my taste.

A small german wachtel or maybe a german jagd which is in fact an outstanding busher , would be nice if you're talking pure breeds. Think that this sort of hunting is where the designer mutts come in, as in designed for the job at hand. Like Ideations beagle/teckel cross and the spaniel hound and hound terriers crosses posted by w1llow.

Over here the springer x hound (beagle/teckel) is quite popular in some parts of the county especially as a rabbit hunting dog, bushing to the guns.

 

However, a lot of these dogs can not get to places where that small nimble terrier will. That might be nice as it will not go to ground, it might also be a shame because when doing pest control that small nimble terrier will get into the stickpiles to bolt those rabbits a bigger dog had no chance of getting to. I could see that with the right breeding you can get a long way with terriers as bushing dogs. If you'd breed to get biddable and handler focused terriers without losing that disctinct terrier working ethic you'd have a great bushing companion.

[fox digger 1,086]

 

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

 

I agree, some sort of spaniel or hound would be the obvious choice. Altough I do feel that the mute hunting of most cockers and springers I've seen is a serious fault in a bushing dog, the hunting up close in the way cockers and springers do as well. A busher should not travel 300 yards but all the cockers and springers I've worked with work to close to the handler for my taste.

A small german wachtel or maybe a german jagd which is in fact an outstanding busher , would be nice if you're talking pure breeds. Think that this sort of hunting is where the designer mutts come in, as in designed for the job at hand. Like Ideations beagle/teckel cross and the spaniel hound and hound terriers crosses posted by w1llow.

Over here the springer x hound (beagle/teckel) is quite popular in some parts of the county especially as a rabbit hunting dog, bushing to the guns.

 

However, a lot of these dogs can not get to places where that small nimble terrier will. That might be nice as it will not go to ground, it might also be a shame because when doing pest control that small nimble terrier will get into the stickpiles to bolt those rabbits a bigger dog had no chance of getting to. I could see that with the right breeding you can get a long way with terriers as bushing dogs. If you'd breed to get biddable and handler focused terriers without losing that disctinct terrier working ethic you'd have a great bushing companion.

 

 

its all down to the way the spaniel is trained, one that is trained for the gun is obviously no use flushing game 300 yards away, a spaniel used solely for running on a trail and flushing regardless of distance to the handler is a common sight aswell, alot of small fox packs use springers and in some cases they are springers that bark on scent. its all down to training imo.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I've just re-read the last few posts and in average cover like nettles etc or a place where a spaniel may fit then they will do a job of sorts, a terrier is the only thing that can fit through the runs of heavy bramble, brier, gorse, etc, its just physically not possible for those springers to do a job all day without suffering damage to eyes, ears, etc unless you irish have those "leprechaun springers", I have seen cockers do a job but those big ears get hammered and as I hunt everyday in thick bramble its just not practical to do so, I have seen many different crosses of hound, spaniel etc hunt and none are any better than a good springer, all types of mongrel curs can do a job and if you've not seen a good pack of terriers flushing heavy cover then you would know no different where as I hunt all over this country with all sorts of mongrel packs and fox destruction societies and my terriers never disappoint me or my hosts, WM

[swede40 92]

I've just re-read the last few posts and in average cover like nettles etc or a place where a spaniel may fit then they will do a job of sorts, a terrier is the only thing that can fit through the runs of heavy bramble, brier, gorse, etc, its just physically not possible for those springers to do a job all day without suffering damage to eyes, ears, etc unless you irish have those "leprechaun springers", I have seen cockers do a job but those big ears get hammered and as I hunt everyday in thick bramble its just not practical to do so, I have seen many different crosses of hound, spaniel etc hunt and none are any better than a good springer, all types of mongrel curs can do a job and if you've not seen a good pack of terriers flushing heavy cover then you would know no different where as I hunt all over this country with all sorts of mongrel packs and fox destruction societies and my terriers never disappoint me or my hosts, WM

Yep you are 100% breed blind

[Irishman 117]

Terriers, especially curs, can be like the loud mouth you see in a pub. A coward until he has his mates behind him.

In other words, a lot of terriers used for bushing might never go to ground until you have a few of them together and then you can end up with a fiasco. A load of terriers to ground, all pushing forward for a fox is not a nice experience. Believe me, I've seen 5 to ground at the same time and there was more damage done to back legs than noses.

Only last week I got caught out in a place I exercise terriers every week. Thought I knew it like the back of my hand and still a terrier got to ground on me. Thankfully I still had the others on couples.

Anyone who says a terrier is the best dog in covert has never seen a good springer or hound cross.

 

 

Far from it WM. All my terriers are exercised by bushing and there's not a year goes by that I don't have an accident or two.

But my terriers are bred for what terriers should be bred for. They also naturally ignore rabbits that have gone to ground but will put them out of cover.

It's not limited thinking when I say that a terrier that wont go to ground on a fox is a sub-standard terrier, it's a fact.

Same as a greyhound that wont chase or a hound that wont follow a line, they're sub-standard.

Also it's not limited thinking when I say that a good springer or a hound is better in covert than a good bushing terrier. That's also a fact.

It's no coincidence that by far the most popular dog used by the 1000s of rough shooters here in Ireland is the springer spaniel. What's rough shooting only bushing all quarry to a gun.

IMO if you have a job to do then you use what's best for that job.

If it's bolting foxes use a terrier. if it's lamping rabbits use a lurcher and if it's putting quarry out of covert then use the breed that's best at it and also doesn't go to ground.

But then again some people go through life with the breed that they like and it's completely up to them what they want to feed and use.

Agree 100%

[Irishman 117]

I also agree that mute hunting isnt ideal so springer or hound crossed with terrier be best. I once seen a pair of parson terriers working cover and they were spot on and no worries of lose them to ground lol

[wirral countryman 2,110]

 

I've just re-read the last few posts and in average cover like nettles etc or a place where a spaniel may fit then they will do a job of sorts, a terrier is the only thing that can fit through the runs of heavy bramble, brier, gorse, etc, its just physically not possible for those springers to do a job all day without suffering damage to eyes, ears, etc unless you irish have those "leprechaun springers", I have seen cockers do a job but those big ears get hammered and as I hunt everyday in thick bramble its just not practical to do so, I have seen many different crosses of hound, spaniel etc hunt and none are any better than a good springer, all types of mongrel curs can do a job and if you've not seen a good pack of terriers flushing heavy cover then you would know no different where as I hunt all over this country with all sorts of mongrel packs and fox destruction societies and my terriers never disappoint me or my hosts, WM

Yep you are 100% breed blind

 

I heard we had a new troll with a negative attitude to everything, try adding something positive or maybe start a thread about your dogs and experiences oh great one, its easy to snipe from the side with one liners so get a life, W A W, WM